Game management, pregame style

[zebraman]

Originally posted by eventnyc

Is that the spirit and intent of the rules? I thought it may have had something to do with intimidation.

And how is a little "drop psuedo-dunk" intimidating? Don't look for trouble.

Z

[Almost Always Right]

We had a crew here where a coach brought out a rule book in the middle of the game. I told them they should've walked over, turned it to 10.5 and said you're gonna have plenty of time to read this tonight coach, good bye!!

[Smitty]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I know what happened. You noticed his player had 00 on his jersey but was listed as 0 in the book....

LOL!! Classic...

[lrpalmer3]

If the coach intends on getting a T that night, I would rather he alert me of his intentions before the game begins. Sounds like he was doing you this favor.

[Edited by lrpalmer3 on Feb 2nd, 2005 at 11:48 AM]

[mj]

Sounds like you handled it like I would've Rich. 85 miles? You must've almost been in my neck of the woods...

[eventnyc]

[/B][/QUOTE]

And how is a little "drop psuedo-dunk" intimidating? Don't look for trouble.

Z [/B][/QUOTE]

No, I understand the little "drop psuedo-dunk." I'm talking about the slam, bam, Shaquille O'Neal type dunk! And, I fully agree on not to look for trouble.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by eventnyc

And how is a little "drop psuedo-dunk" intimidating? Don't look for trouble.

Z [/B][/QUOTE]

No, I understand the little "drop psuedo-dunk." I'm talking about the slam, bam, Shaquille O'Neal type dunk! And, I fully agree on not to look for trouble. [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree. If it's a rim-rattler, you don't have much choice.

Z

[Goose]

Sounds good to me, but since I wasn't there, I can't personally comment on was it or wasn't it. The important part is that both of you saw it and both of you agreed that it was not a dunk. Case closed.

Simply put, tell the coach it was a judgment thing and that the rulebook in some of these cases are merely guidelines to follow.

Lastly, despite what he thinks, it is your interpretation, and you are doing the game, not him.


goose

[Rich]

Originally posted by Goose
Sounds good to me, but since I wasn't there, I can't personally comment on was it or wasn't it. The important part is that both of you saw it and both of you agreed that it was not a dunk. Case closed.

Simply put, tell the coach it was a judgment thing and that the rulebook in some of these cases are merely guidelines to follow.

Lastly, despite what he thinks, it is your interpretation, and you are doing the game, not him.


goose

He ended up getting a technical with 1:17 left in the fourth quarter of a three-point game.

He wasn't well behaved the whole game, but I didn't want to look like I was out for bear after the pregame incident, so I kept him on a slightly longer leash than I should've.

I was the trail putting the ball in play on the baseline for the home team. The ball was thrown poorly towards midcourt and the defender was about to catch the ball when a player from the home team swooped in and clipped the home player's arm. My partner was behind this play and didn't have a good angle, so I hit the whistle, closed, and made the call myself. It was a call that had to be made -- if we would've left this go, home would've gotten an unwarranted possession down three with 1:17 left in the game.

The home coach requests and my partner grants a full timeout. Partner reports and is intercepted by this coach. Coach spends the first thirty seconds of this timeout at center court arguing with my partner (not about the quality of the call, but that *I* made the call). Partner was trying to get him back to his huddle and partner told me afterwards he didn't realize how far out on the floor he was during this scene. At this point, I left my block and started walking towards this scene and called a technical (we can go into why I called this and my partner didn't later, but let's just say I'm much more of a veteran than my partner, although he does a terrific job officiating).

So this is why I feel terrible. 1:17 left in a 3-point game and now we have four free throws and possession. They sink 2 of the 4 and the game ends with a five point margin.

If I had to do this all over again, we would've started the game with a seatbelt and free throws (and not because of the supposed dunk, either). That's what I'm kicking myself over this morning. Either that or not calling a technical earlier in the game.

But like they say, I'm still learning. And after saying I don't call technicals often, I've called two in two nights. Same school -- girls coach on Monday and boys coach last night.


[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Feb 2nd, 2005 at 12:19 PM]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
So this is why I feel terrible. 1:17 left in a 3-point game and now we have four free throws and possession. They sink 2 of the 4 and the game ends with a five point margin.

If I had to do this all over again, we would've started the game with a seatbelt and free throws (and not because of the supposed dunk, either). That's what I'm kicking myself over this morning. Either that or not calling a technical earlier in the game.

But like they say, I'm still learning. And after saying I don't call technicals often, I've called two in two nights. Same school -- girls coach on Monday and boys coach last night.

Rich -- sounds like you learned your lesson. NExt time you'll do better. That's the most any of us can do!

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

He ended up getting a technical with 1:17 left in the fourth quarter of a three-point game.

He wasn't well behaved the whole game, but I didn't want to look like I was out for bear after the pregame incident, so I kept him on a slightly longer leash than I should've.

I was the trail putting the ball in play on the baseline for the home team. The ball was thrown poorly towards midcourt and the defender was about to catch the ball when a player from the home team swooped in and clipped the home player's arm. My partner was behind this play and didn't have a good angle, so I hit the whistle, closed, and made the call myself. It was a call that had to be made -- if we would've left this go, home would've gotten an unwarranted possession down three with 1:17 left in the game.

The home coach requests and my partner grants a full timeout. Partner reports and is intercepted by this coach. Coach spends the first thirty seconds of this timeout at center court arguing with my partner (not about the quality of the call, but that *I* made the call). Partner was trying to get him back to his huddle and partner told me afterwards he didn't realize how far out on the floor he was during this scene. At this point, I left my block and started walking towards this scene and called a technical (we can go into why I called this and my partner didn't later, but let's just say I'm much more of a veteran than my partner, although he does a terrific job officiating).

So this is why I feel terrible. 1:17 left in a 3-point game and now we have four free throws and possession. They sink 2 of the 4 and the game ends with a five point margin.

If I had to do this all over again, we would've started the game with a seatbelt and free throws (and not because of the supposed dunk, either). That's what I'm kicking myself over this morning. Either that or not calling a technical earlier in the game.

But like they say, I'm still learning. And after saying I don't call technicals often, I've called two in two nights. Same school -- girls coach on Monday and boys coach last night.


[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Feb 2nd, 2005 at 12:19 PM]

I'm sorry Rich, this is all my fault.

That is much nicer than telling you, "I told you so!"

[Ref Daddy]

SECTION 4 BENCH TECHNICAL
The head coach is responsible for the conduct and behavior of substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel. Bench personnel shall not:
ART. 1 . . . Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as:

a. Disrespectfully addressing an official.
b. Attempting to influence an official's decision.
c. Using profane or inappropriate language or obscene gestures.
d. Disrespectfully addressing, baiting or taunting an opponent.

NOTE: The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting which is intended or designed to embarrass, ridicule or demean others under any circumstances including on the basis of race, religion, gender or national origin.

e. Objecting to an official's decision by rising from the bench or using gestures.
f. Inciting undesirable crowd reactions.
g. Team member(s) not remaining seated on the bench unless spontaneously reacting to an outstanding play by a member of their team and immediately returning to their seats or reporting to the scorer's table.
h. Being charged with fighting.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Ref Daddy
SECTION 4 BENCH TECHNICAL
The head coach is responsible for the conduct and behavior of substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel. Bench personnel shall not:
ART. 1 . . . Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as:

a. Disrespectfully addressing an official.
b. Attempting to influence an official's decision.
c. Using profane or inappropriate language or obscene gestures.
d. Disrespectfully addressing, baiting or taunting an opponent.

NOTE: The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting which is intended or designed to embarrass, ridicule or demean others under any circumstances including on the basis of race, religion, gender or national origin.

e. Objecting to an official's decision by rising from the bench or using gestures.
f. Inciting undesirable crowd reactions.
g. Team member(s) not remaining seated on the bench unless spontaneously reacting to an outstanding play by a member of their team and immediately returning to their seats or reporting to the scorer's table.
h. Being charged with fighting.

What does this have to do with anything? This is all about the head coach, not bench personnel that the head coach is responsible for.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

What does this have to do with anything? This is all about the head coach, not bench personnel that the head coach is responsible for.

10-4 applies to the head coach too, 10.4.1.C.

Now quoting the rules without saying why you quoted them is another matter.

[Leggs45]

I would not have started the game shooting free-throws. I also would not let a coach put a rule book in my face.

First, I would ask the coach to let me finish my duties at the table before we discussed his concern.

Then, I would listen to what he had to say and give him a chance to "vent". When he is finished, I would tell him that I am aware of the rules and do not need him/her to show me the rule book.

Finally, I would say that in my opinion the young man did not dunk the ball and return to my position opposite table.

I would also give this coach a little more rope than normal at the start of the game because of the situation. I would let him be a little more vocal and animated on the sideline but, I would not let it contniue on for too long before I warned him.