But at some point, when the disinformation becomes confusing and just plain wrong, it needs to be cleaned up. Would you allow someone to stand in front of a local association, spout incorrect interpretations that would confuse and frustrate inexperienced members and create bad situations in a game?

I think not.

This is a function, I think, if the games you've worked in the past.

I worked a JV game a few weeks ago. I had to keep telling myself that this is the important game of the night for me, for the players, for the coaches, for the parents, etc. I will admit that enthusiasm and excitement for this game did NOT come naturally for me. As far as I could tell, nobody could tell -- I worked very hard from beginning to end and even got a compliment from some losing team parents on the way out :)

When I read something like this, I actually like it -- it shows me that younger and newer officials have passion for the game. Reminds me why I've stuck around since 1987 and hope to stick around till 2037 :)

--Rich

According to Dan's website, I'll be dead in 2035. :(

Then, perhaps everyone on this board will be rid of me. :)

Come on Larry.
 

An 8th grade championship game?

I have worked an 8th grade regional game before and I have worked my share of very insignificant varsity games. There is much more pressure at the varsity game with 100 people in the stands. Intensity is one thing. It is another when more eyes are at play at a sorry *** varsity game. I can get rated at the most sad varsity contests; I cannot get rated at a JH game of any kind. These two things are not even comparable.

Peace

I guess since opinions are like "noses" or other body parts, I'll jump into this. I am by no means the official that I want to be, but then again I'm not the teacher I want to be or the man I want to be. I think we are always a work in progress as far as anything we do. This is why I'm on the forum. I see the form as a public place to vent, discuss, and learn about the game we officiate. The good thing about everyone that posts here is that they must be trying to improve, or else they wouldn't be here. I'm sure I've made rules posts and game situation posts that may have been incorrect or not the best for game management at the time, but that is why we post. So we can learn from these mistakes and not make them again. To me, this is the most valuable aspect of the forum. There is not substitute for experience, but talking through situations on the board and in person with other officials will make us better as a group.

Re: Come on Larry.
 

I'm surprised it took you so long to criticize the comment. I fully expected it to come from you first.

I glad for you that you are now only rated on varsity games. However, I was waiting for a JH rec game to start this last weekend (I was working it with my son, a new official) and there was a league official there watching a kid, in his first year, officiate a 6th grade game (my guess is the official was 19-20). The guy needs to find officials that are good enough to call 8th grade so he can more those officials to cover his HS ages. But you probably don't consider that a meaningful evaluation because is wasn't at a varsity game.

You normally have good information in your post and appear to be one of the officials many could learn from. However, at least for me, your arrogance gets in the way at times.

Re: Re: Come on Larry.
 

LarryS,
What I read was that Rut agreed there was intensity in Junior High, but that he felt more pressure in varsity games because of the ratings that resulted.
Junior High officials in his area apparently do not get rated.
mick

Hey Tony, would this thread now be an example of the type of thread you started this post about in the first place???

Holy crap - that sentence just gave me a headache...I need a brownpop!

Re: Re: Come on Larry.
 

Larry it is clear that you do not understand what I am saying to you. I am not talking about evaluation and helping officials. You can help any officials at all levels, even the varsity and college level. I know any game I work I ask for advice if I am working with a more experienced official and try to discuss philosophy. Your post was that someone is going to have a more intense game at the 8th grade level than a varsity game. Maybe our definition of intensity is just different, but having a bunch of fans screaming and yelling does not equal intensity in my mind. Intensity in my way of thinking has to do with who is watching, who is playing, what are the consequences of the actions of the players, coaches and officials.

I am the Vice-President of one of my associations. I am a member of 4 basketball organizations. I have never heard anyone seriously ask the top brass in any of those associations how they can get the 8th grade championship. That tells me that when people talk about games, they are not talking about. I work many middle school football games; no one talks about those games or asks me about the games or even care that I do them. I get a lot of questions about my regular season games and there is a lot of talk about who works the playoffs and why they got those games. I am sorry that is arrogant to state the obvious truth.

Well Larry you have the right to dismiss everything I say. I have the right to dismiss the advice or comments of many other officials on this site and I do that all the time. But when I talk to younger officials and run classes for younger officials, the questions do not surround the 8th grade championship. It revolves around how they can get better and how to they work the games that are assigned by the varsity assignors and how they get college opportunities and HS playoff opportunities. If that is arrogant to state that, then that is just something you are going to have to deal with. I am not here to make everyone happy and say the things to make you feel better about yourself. Officiating is a competitive hobby, where people want to know what it takes to move up the ranks and get the recognition as a good official. I have helped train many younger officials and I never see the official that wants to be the 8th grade championship official step up and do that kind of training to make officiating better. Nor do we let officials that have not accomplished certain things just speak or step to the forefront. If I am arrogant, everyone that is in a leadership role in any group I belong to is arrogant. I cannot name one official that does not share similar attitudes about those kinds of games as I do and the comparison you gave.

Peace

Re: Re: Re: Come on Larry.
 

Our association has a mentor program. The purpose of that mentor program is to evaluate officials for HS ball. We do not have a structure that puts officials at the middle school level if they are brand new. A brand new official can work as many freshman and sophomore games as they like. Of course they can work JH or middle school games, but if they want to get a their name out there, they better put a big effort to working as much HS games as they can handle.

Peace

IMHO, all good officials have some level of arrogance. If you don't then you shouldn't think you are worthy of any game you get that is a move up. Larry, of course your definition of arrogance might be different.

I really don't see anything wrong with someone stating what level basketball they work. It takes hard work to get someplace and it is something to be proud of. I also work various levels to still work on play calling. Now some people pounce on that but I have been blessed to be in some great situations to be seen. Doing games that others might see as below me is my way of never becoming bigger than the game. Having said that I still don't think of an 8th grade game as being intense. If I felt a partner of mine felt this way I would do my best to put them at ease. Just my opinion.

tomegun-

The initials wont help since there are too many officials here (as you know). So the names are Ron Thompson and Rick Massey. More Ron than Rick, though. Ron actually has taken me on the court and worked stuff with me and been at my games specifically to review me. Rick has helped me with other things like who to sit with and watch and what to do to be squared away. Both a real good guys. And I have met a bunch of Varsity guys who have been really great. Too many names to remember. But Ron is probably my primary senior mentor.

I was directed to Ron by both Rick Massey and Mark Ratner (whose kid plays some serious ball, by the way, since you are from down here). I figure if the assignor and the head of the association direct you to the guy you can feel pretty good about that.

If you have any suggestions for me I would be happy to have it.

Clark

It's RELATIVE guys.

If you are doing MS ball an 8th grade championship is intense, even if you have moved beyond that level it does not make it less intense or important.

The lower levels tend to have more fans, less talented players, less experienced coaches, and you are working with less experienced partners and all that equals pressure.

A big 8th grade game is MUCH harder to work than a run of the mill varsity game. The better the players the easier it is to call, less funky rules interpretations, coaches know what they are doing, and you have more experienced partners.

DJ, ask me in 2036. :)

Re: Intense 8th grade games

Intense for the players and fans does not equal intensity for the refs. Some refs are into this as a career and view each game as an audition. They will never see a lesser game as worthy of them. Some refs are into this because they love basketball and feel that a well-played game is exciting at any level.

If a shot at the buzzer in a close game at any age level doesn't get your blood flowing, I pity you. If this ever happened to me I'd move on to something else. But, to each his own.