Coach Belligerent in Coach's Meeting

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by mick

ReadyToRef,
Well, how can ya tell the players without a program?
mick

I go by the numbers that they always seem to be wearing, for some strange reason, on their shirts.

[Rich]

Originally posted by mick

Uh, grab a program on the way in.
mick

That's one way. We always grab a program in case something needs to be written up for the state office. The better way is to look up the names in the state's Internet directory or on a website dedicated to basketball (wishoops.net here).

Friday night the coaches were Kurt and Mary and the AD was Lois.

[Goose]

For all of you who enjoyed my triad, thanks. It's been a long winter for me. After nearly 20 years, it has not been easy starting over in another part of the country.

Anyway, to those of you who ask the coach, "Coach, are your players properly equipped?" My question to you is what if during the game you discover they aren't?

Again, is this his fault or your teams fault? Aren't we supposed to check to insure that the players are dressed properly and that no jewelry, hard braces, etc. are worn?

So, what if you discover that player "x" is not properly dressed after the game has started. Do you "T" the coach? Just what is your procedure for handling a stray ear ring? Look, I know you will make them take it off, but I'm trying to make you see the bigger picture.

To me the point is moot. Are these associations now saying that we do not have to check for illegal uniforms, ear rings, long fingernails, undergarments, etc.? If this is the case, then I'm all for it. If it is not, then what is the point in asking the coach this question if in the end my partners and myself are still responsible?

And furthermore, if there is no penalty involved when found out, again, what is the purpose? Idle chatter to me.

As far as the coaches being part of the pregame with the captains, I don't have a problem with that, and in fact would rather drop the captains and simply speak to the coaches and let him or her relay the information to his or her players. Captains never pay attention anyway and it used to become somewhat of a running joke with guys I worked with to see who could do the pregame the quickest. I was told more than once by D-1 college guys (this includes camp) that if it lasted more than 10 seconds, you were talking to much. So I tend to make it short and sweet. The fewer words I say the better.

As for rapport with the coaches, I'm all for that too, but at what cost? One coach always thinks that the other coach is getting over on one or all the ref's if a ref is chatting with a coach. I never call a coach by his first name either even if I know him. I just address them as "coach" and I expect them to address me as "ref" and not use my name. If they do use my name, I will be quick to let them know I would appreciate it if they simply call me ref. If the other coach hears that, I could be in for and even longer night.

But all this conferencing with players and coaches is beginning to be just to much for me, as it really does nothing. Ohh, it does do something. More often than not, I have heard a coach say, watch so-and-so because last time we played, they did this or that. Just another opportunity to add their pre-game 2 cents into the mix.

As I said, the less I have to speak with the coach, the better.

goose

[mick]

Originally posted by Goose
For all of you who enjoyed my triad, thanks. It's been a long winter for me. After nearly 20 years, it has not been easy starting over in another part of the country.

Anyway, to those of you who ask the coach, "Coach, are your players properly equipped?" My question to you is what if during the game you discover they aren't?

Again, is this his fault or your teams fault? Aren't we supposed to check to insure that the players are dressed properly and that no jewelry, hard braces, etc. are worn?

So, what if you discover that player "x" is not properly dressed after the game has started. Do you "T" the coach? Just what is your procedure for handling a stray ear ring? Look, I know you will make them take it off, but I'm trying to make you see the bigger picture.

To me the point is moot. Are these associations now saying that we do not have to check for illegal uniforms, ear rings, long fingernails, undergarments, etc.? If this is the case, then I'm all for it. If it is not, then what is the point in asking the coach this question if in the end my partners and myself are still responsible?

And furthermore, if there is no penalty involved when found out, again, what is the purpose? Idle chatter to me.

As far as the coaches being part of the pregame with the captains, I don't have a problem with that, and in fact would rather drop the captains and simply speak to the coaches and let him or her relay the information to his or her players. Captains never pay attention anyway and it used to become somewhat of a running joke with guys I worked with to see who could do the pregame the quickest. I was told more than once by D-1 college guys (this includes camp) that if it lasted more than 10 seconds, you were talking to much. So I tend to make it short and sweet. The fewer words I say the better.

As for rapport with the coaches, I'm all for that too, but at what cost? One coach always thinks that the other coach is getting over on one or all the ref's if a ref is chatting with a coach. I never call a coach by his first name either even if I know him. I just address them as "coach" and I expect them to address me as "ref" and not use my name. If they do use my name, I will be quick to let them know I would appreciate it if they simply call me ref. If the other coach hears that, I could be in for and even longer night.

But all this conferencing with players and coaches is beginning to be just to much for me, as it really does nothing. Ohh, it does do something. More often than not, I have heard a coach say, watch so-and-so because last time we played, they did this or that. Just another opportunity to add their pre-game 2 cents into the mix.

As I said, the less I have to speak with the coach, the better.

goose

goose,
RE: " My question to you is what if during the game you discover they aren't?"
I ask them to remove it, or sit.

RE: The rest
How do you really feel about it?

mick

[ReadyToRef]

Goose,

You bring up some valid points. I prefer not to do the pregame meetings but they are required by my state. I prefer not to ask the questions but they too are required by my state. Now if I didn't do them, would someone at the state know? Probably not. BUT what if someone gets hurt and they find out you didn't ask the pregame questions? Is your butt now fried and your little referee career now over?

[Goose]

to mick

>I ask them to remove it, or sit.

Exactly. So what is the point in asking the coach in the first place if it doesn't mean anything?


ready to ref,

>You bring up some valid points. I prefer not to do the >pregame meetings but they are required by my state. I >prefer not to ask the questions but they too are required >by my state. Now if I didn't do them, would someone at the >state know? Probably not. BUT what if someone gets hurt >and they find out you didn't ask the pregame questions? Is >your butt now fried and your little referee career now >over?

If someone gets hurt, how can they trace it back to your pregame with the coach?

My contention is that no matter if we ask the coach or not, we are still responsible for making sure the players are properly equipped. In the situation above, as I said, no matter that the coach says they are properly equipped, it is still our job to check! So again, my point is why ask in the first place if it is still our responsibility?

Are you saying that by asking the coach it absolves you or your crew from responsibility? It is still part of our warm up procedure so in effect we are still accountable no matter what the coach says, or doesn't say.

goose

[mick]

Originally posted by Goose
>I ask them to remove it, or sit.

Exactly. So what is the point in asking the coach in the first place if it doesn't mean anything?

Goose,
I suppose that since we ask initially, we can then just sit the player, request a sub and make the illegal uniform wait until the next dead ball before re-entering.

But that seems to be a lot of aggravation.
...However, if the opposing Coach wants that player to sit, I s'pose we should [make 'em sit].
mick

[ReadyToRef]

It is a pain to send the player back out until the next dead ball. Sometimes it corrects the problem for the remainder of the game but it usually doesn't. Does anyone wish there was a more severe penalty (violation or T for example)?

[mick]

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
It is a pain to send the player back out until the next dead ball. Sometimes it corrects the problem for the remainder of the game but it usually doesn't. Does anyone wish there was a more severe penalty (violation or T for example)?

The trouble with that, ReadyToRef, is that we don't like to administer "cruel and unusual punishment".
Violation wouldn't work if the defender was illegal, loss of arrow would require another chapter, unsporting act ..., not even!
mick

---

Hey kid! Take it off.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I'm with you man. Your line of reasoning, as I espoused earlier, is the only one that makes sense. We are responsible and that is completely independent of anything said in the coaches' meeting.

So why ask the questions. Get in. Get out. Get done.

If you have been instructed to ask a particular set of questions and it is important to your evaluation, then do so. I would recommend doing it just like a ploliceman does for the Miranda rights, read them off of a card. (let everyone know just how important it is that you get every word correct.) Appologize and "Get done."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Who is requiring you to ask those silly questions at a middle school game?

Well, this has been an interesting argument for about a week. I was kinda waiting for it to play out before I added this:

NFHS rule 2-4-5: "Prior to each contest, the head coach shall verify that his/her team member's uniforms and equipment are legal and will be worn properly, and that the participants will exhibit proper sporting behavior throughout the contest".

It's a rule, folks. Been in the book since the 2000/2001 season. We are required to ask these silly questions, like it or not, agree with it or not.

[Goose]

>NFHS rule 2-4-5: "Prior to each contest, the head coach >shall verify that his/her team member's uniforms and >equipment are legal and will be worn properly, and that >the participants will exhibit proper sporting behavior >throughout the contest".

Yep, it is a "rule", but until 2-4-5 obsolves me of any responsibility concerning injury because said coach lied to me before the game, I will administer the rule accordingly.

It is also interesting that the rule exists yet in Mass, I never saw it administered over the last 4 years. Again, state associations differ, and from what I remember, it was not part of the pregame requirements. Now, we did have to read a code of conduct statement that came down from our state association, but we never asked the coach if his players were properly equipped.


goose

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Goose
>NFHS rule 2-4-5: "Prior to each contest, the head coach >shall verify that his/her team member's uniforms and >equipment are legal and will be worn properly, and that >the participants will exhibit proper sporting behavior >throughout the contest".

It is also interesting that the rule exists yet in Mass, I never saw it administered over the last 4 years.

Well, that oughta tell you a lot right there about the officials in Mass.