Shot Clock Screw-up In One Point Game

[Frankie]

Consolation Senior High Boys Final.
Great Game!
38 seconds left on the clock, A is up by one point. B has bonus one and one and misses first shot. A rebounds and starts up the floor.

After about 20 seconds A1 who has the ball starts yelling to his coach/teammates, asking how much time left on the shot clock. (Nobody can answer because the shot clock has been turned off!!) After another 10 seconds B coach and B players are screaming something about the clock (I'm trail and have the ball in my quadrant, the lead is off ball but is at a bad angle to see the shot clock). Finally coach B yells to foul and stop the game clock. B1 grabs A1....TWEEET! 1.8 left on the game clock.

Oh oh, what a mess. My partner and I go right to the table to talk with the timers (The table crew had done a great job all weekend so this error was a surprise). The shot clock operator said she did exactly what she was told "Shut the clock off when there are less than 30 seconds left on the game clock". Urrggg!!!

We agreed that the error occured (shot shut off) at about 18 seconds left on the game clock. So we put 18 seconds on the clock, 10 on the shot and cancelled the foul (because it should not of had to happen). Both coaches agreed.

The result...A inbounds and makes a jumper at the shot buzzer to go up by three. B comes down for three and the ball hits the rim, missing at the buzzer.

Great Game, but did we do this correctly? Can't find anything in the rules (yet). Is this a case for 2.3.1 Elastic power???

[Dan_ref]

Frankie, you ain't gonna find this in the rules 'cause
it ain't there. I know in some gyms the placement of
the game & shot clock makes it tough to keep an eye on
each, but doing so would have avoided this huge mess.
Once you found yourself in the mess I guess you handled
it as best as you could and getting agreement from both
coaches helped. But there's no rules backup for how
you handled it.

[BktBallRef]

Since you're probably using one of those crazy variations of FIBA and NCAA rules, you'll have to research those rules. My guess is that the situation is probably not specifically covered.

My only question is how could you possibly know that the shot clock was turned off with 18 seconds left? I don't believe you can just put 18 seconds back on the clock and ignore the foul on B. You either have to administer the foul with 1.8 remaining or you have a shot clock violation with 8 seconds on the game clock.

[Kelvin green]

I agree that if the game clock showed 38 and you are using a 30 second shot clock violation would have happened at 8. I would also say that in such a close game, the officials should have known the shot clock was off, or that you were close to a violation and would have checked both clocks even if the placement is bad.

Last second shots... trail has clocks.
Trail always has shot clock.

there is noway that you can put time back on the clock and redo.

[Frankie]

In response to a couple of comments:

First, we are using NCAA for all high school and junior high ball in Alberta.

Second, the timer said she turned the clock off with 18 seconds left in the game.

Third, I know this was a messy situation (especially with a foul) but at our post game we talked about the spirit of the rules and the game (also not in the rule book). The officials screwed up, we knew when the clock was shut off and we had to do what was fair. How could you take the ball away from A by calling a violation, since they were working the shot clock to get that last shot off? Then to give it to B with 8 seconds left? How can you add game time for one team yet not the other? Agreed B should have had 8 and should not of had to foul to stop the clock.

Rule 2.12.14 gives some latitude for game clock errors, but there is nothing to guide us in shot clock errors. Can we apply this to the shot clock? Where does it say you cannot add time back to the clock?

Regardless, I'll be working on clock management next time out, believe me!!

[Kelvin green]

The only way you can add time back to a game clock is when the timer shuts it off, and YOU have definite knowledge.

Dont take this the wrong way but It sounds like the timer could have told you almost anything about when the shot clock got shut off and you would have believed her. Was it really 18? If she said she was told to shut it off when it went under 30 then 18 doesnt match!

The only way you have done this right (based on my training and experience) was that both officials should have known there was one shot clock plus eight seconds on the game clock. Even in the feel of the game you should know that time is running off, and that you are getting close. A shot clock buzzer should never go off without an official knowing it's going off. The timer screwed up! but making more mistakes in trying to be "fair" is not the rule.
This is when referees should understand what's happening in the game. B knew that they did not have to foul, They knew if they played good defense and force a shot clock violation they would get the ball back with eight seconds. Team A knows they can run it down but They are not going to risk a shot clock violation so they'll have to toss the ball up at 27/28 seconds hoping that a couple will run off mid air, and that they'll get the rebound. At that point B might have to foul. If I were a coach and my team played great defense for almost 30 seconds because I was trying to force the turnover or let them run the clock down knowing I still have a great chance at getting the ball back and there was a problem like this and you put time on the clock is that "Fair"??? No way! I'd be arguing that it would be my ball at 8 seconds!(I'd be wrong by rule but I'd sure try) In fact most coaches I know watch the clock pretty good the last minute or so. I'd have been screaming for the violation. If you had blown the whistle at 8 seconds and announced the violation, one coach may have been unhappy but you would have been right according to the rule. It sounds like the Coach for B was screaming and no one had an idea what he was screaming about. And then the opposing team gets the ball back with another 10 seconds. so they get 40 seconds to setup the last play, you have deflated Team B because they played hard for 30 and now they have to do it again for another 10.

I hope this doesnt sound mean but I do agree with you on one thing you and your partner need to work on game and clock management.

[mlancast]

You have definitive reason enough to make a ruling on this.....I'd rule it a shot clock violation and put 8 seconds on the clock. In this case you know that the violation occurred at the 8 second mark.

A similar situation I had in a women's college game last week:

Team A brought the ball downcourt, passed it around a while, and took a shot which came off of the backboard, but drew no iron. A2 got the rebound, dribbled out on the baseline, and I noticed the shot clock at 26 seconds. Obviously it had been erroneously reset after the missed shot. Fortunately, the clock operator knew that the shot clock showed 3 seconds when he reset it to 30. With the 26 secs showing, obviously a violation had occurred. Set the clock to 30 and give the ball to B for inbound.

[Frankie]

One more kick and I'll let this one go...

...I still need a little help on what the proper procedure should have been had we recognized the error (the shot was shut off at 18 on the game clock, but say we got a glance at the shot with 13 seconds left in the game and discovered the shot turned off).

Is the procedure to:
a)blow this down...fix the shot (5 would put up on the shot)...and continue with a throw-in for A.

b)let the game continue but verbalize to A that 5 seconds are left and do a manual count.

c)let the game continue a hope that A is good at basketball and math. Then blow the violation at 8.

Again some NCAA rule direction would help me out here.

Thanks for all the input...someone wise once said we learn better from our mistakes!!!

[BktBallRef]

A) is the correct answer.

Why would you verbalize the shot clock when you have a working model or let the gasme continue without stopping the clock and making the correction?