Timing Errors

[Mlancaster]

Here is a scenario that recently occurred: Team A up by 2 with 45 seconds remaining in the game. Ball goes OOB. Scorer sounds the horn and tells official that he accidently let 4 seconds run off of the clock, and that there should be 49 seconds left. All 3 officials huddle, but none saw the excess time run off of the clock (yes, I know, inexcusable). The R makes the decision that since the clock operator is a part of his crew, he can use this info to put the time back on the clock, which he does. Naturally, Team B makes the winning basket with less than 4 seconds remaining, and of course, Team A coach goes bonkers.

When I was asked about this, my first instinct was tht you could use the score keepers info in this case (part of the crew)....But I reconsidered when the "home cooking" thought came to mind.

The rule book says that the referee must have "definite information" in order to put time back on the clock. How would you define "definite information" in this case??? Would you use the score keepers information as "definite" or would you assume that this info must come from one of the 3 officials?

[Adam]

Those 4 seconds are virtually meaningless. Coach needs to figure out how his team gave up the basket instead of crying to the officials.
If the R can consult with the U, I'd say he could also consult with the official timer.

[Edited by Snaqwells on Jan 24th, 2005 at 03:13 PM]

[Mlancaster]

I agree....But let's assume that the time WAS a factor.....
How do you interpret??

[cmathews]

whether or not time is a factor is no factor at all. I don't have the books with me, but I am positive that in the timing situation/correction area, it never says to correct the time unless you think that a basket will be scored with the same or less time left on the clock that you add or subtract

[Mark Dexter]

If the coach can't adjust to the difference between 45 and 49 seconds, he has bigger problems than the fact that time was added back on.

[Kelvin green]

I would not have put up the 4 seconds. If the three offcials did not see it oh well. It's nice to have a timer that good but relying on the word of the timer (--there is possibility of home cooking) is not allowed by rule.

The protestations should have happened at the 49 second mark. Once it was fixed it and started it was too late.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
(--there is possibility of home cooking)

I certainly wouldn't disagree about the POSSIBILITY of home cooking, but in this case, I doubt it. I mean, what difference EITHER WAY could four seconds possibly make? If the visiting coach can't blame his loss on it, the home coach probably shouldn't be blamed for his win on it (weird sentence!!).

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
I would not have put up the 4 seconds. If the three offcials did not see it oh well. It's nice to have a timer that good but relying on the word of the timer (--there is possibility of home cooking) is not allowed by rule.

The protestations should have happened at the 49 second mark. Once it was fixed it and started it was too late.

In this situation, I have to agree with Kelvin. Now if clock wasn't working properly that is another story.

[South GA BBall Ref]

5-10-1 Situation E in the Case Book states the following: "The timer and scorer and other officials can be used by the referee to gain definite information". However, one must take into account the "home cooking" possibilities. IMO, if there is not definite knowledge by either official, we go with what is on the clock.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by South GA BBall Ref
5-10-1 Situation E in the Case Book states the following: "The timer and scorer and other officials can be used by the referee to gain definite information". However, one must take into account the "home cooking" possibilities. IMO, if there is not definite knowledge by either official, we go with what is on the clock.

SGa - Thanks for that reference. Yes, but the referee is still the one who makes the final decision and must assume responsibility for his(her) actions. He(she) can choose to ignore time keeper and still be in compliance with the rules. If he(she) has definite knowledge of time, he(she) cannot ignore and still be in compliance.

[South GA BBall Ref]

Originally posted by TravelinMan

SGa - Thanks for that reference. Yes, but the referee is still the one who makes the final decision and must assume responsibility for his(her) actions. He(she) can choose to ignore time keeper and still be in compliance with the rules. If he(she) has definite knowledge of time, he(she) cannot ignore and still be in compliance.

TravelinMan....I'm in your corner on this one. I just read the reference, but personally, I'll not take the timer's word alone.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by South GA BBall Ref

TravelinMan....I'm in your corner on this one. I just read the reference, but personally, I'll not take the timer's word alone.

I know. Didn't mean to sound like I was refuting your statement. Of course, after reading my post, I would have reacted the same way. BTW, Timekeeper's input can be very valuable, e.g., last second shot. I'm about 15 miles north of Columbus, but do games as far north as E. Coweta, Fayetteville, etc.

[Mlancaster]

Travelin' Man...Are you in GGOA or AABOA??????

[BktBallRef]

If I think 4 seconds ran off and the timer confirms this, fine. Reset.

But if he just calls me over and says 4 seconds ran off, "Oh well. Wake and that won't happen."