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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 23, 2005, 02:56pm
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Gave my first T of the season last night in a boys tournament. I had this same team three nights in a row and felt like the coach and I were on decent terms, he liked to talk about a lot of calls and we had several discussions over the three games. His team is getting beat and he's frustrated and his kid fouls and just as the whistle blows for the foul his kid takes an elbow in the chest. It wasn't intentional and wasn't bad at all and wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been right on top of the guy with the ball. Coach simply asked me if that was ok, and I told him there was nothing there and went on. I'm at half court when he yells 'don't take it out on my kids if you have something personal against me'. I gave him one of those 'i'm flabbergasted you just said that looks' and whacked him calmly. He was silent the rest of the night and I think he may have wanted one. I hope so, because I have them three more times this season.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 23, 2005, 04:57pm
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An elbow is NEVER nothing. That is deadball contact and a technical foul, EVERY time. By not calling it you just gave every player the right to pop anybody agressively defending.

The coaches response was justified, he was protecting his players, and your non-call on a LANDED elbow, followed by, "That's nothing," would lead most coaches to a similar comment.
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Old Sun Jan 23, 2005, 06:14pm
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Blindzebra,

I personally have seen inadvertant elbows that are not necessarily T's. One time a guy was coming down with a rebound and his elbow flushed a guy on the nose who was under him when he landed. His elbows weren't even extended beyond his body. That was the most blood I've ever seen on the court.
On an aside, what are the conditions of officiating in the Phoenix area. I am seriously considering going south for the winters. Probably in 2006-07 season. Are there alot of associations or just a few assignors? I would appreciate an e-mail on the subject and we can talk about it.

[email protected]

Thanks.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 23, 2005, 06:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigJoe
Blindzebra,

I personally have seen inadvertant elbows that are not necessarily T's. One time a guy was coming down with a rebound and his elbow flushed a guy on the nose who was under him when he landed. His elbows weren't even extended beyond his body. That was the most blood I've ever seen on the court.
On an aside, what are the conditions of officiating in the Phoenix area. I am seriously considering going south for the winters. Probably in 2006-07 season. Are there alot of associations or just a few assignors? I would appreciate an e-mail on the subject and we can talk about it.

[email protected]

Thanks.
I read it as a foul and a pivot/swinging situation. Based on the score/frustration level as described, I consider it a game managment issue.

As for Phoenix all you need is:

http://www.AIAonline.org

They govern and assign all the high school ball in Arizona, except a few charter schools. It has all the info you need about becoming an official on the website.

It helps to have records and references from your current association(s), if you want to start at or near your current level.

Don't know where you are at now, but it's 75, sunny with a nice little breeze today.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 23, 2005, 10:01pm
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ART. 7 . . . It is not legal to use the hand and/or forearm to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal.
ART. 8 . . . It is not legal to swing arms and elbows excessively. This occurs when:

a. Arms and elbows are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arms and elbows is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot.
b. The aggressiveness with which the arms and elbows are swung could cause injury to another player if contacted.

Using this description as a basis, an official will promptly and unhesitatingly call such action with arms and elbows a violation.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 07:44am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ref Daddy


ART. 7 . . . It is not legal to use the hand and/or forearm to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal.
ART. 8 . . . It is not legal to swing arms and elbows excessively. This occurs when:

a. Arms and elbows are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arms and elbows is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot.
b. The aggressiveness with which the arms and elbows are swung could cause injury to another player if contacted.

Using this description as a basis, an official will promptly and unhesitatingly call such action with arms and elbows a violation.
Just to clarify, the sentence in red goes with Art. 8 only. It does not apply to Art. 7. The action in Art. 7 has contact and is a personal foul, not a violation.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 11:13am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Ref Daddy


ART. 7 . . . It is not legal to use the hand and/or forearm to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal.
ART. 8 . . . It is not legal to swing arms and elbows excessively. This occurs when:

a. Arms and elbows are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arms and elbows is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot.
b. The aggressiveness with which the arms and elbows are swung could cause injury to another player if contacted.

Using this description as a basis, an official will promptly and unhesitatingly call such action with arms and elbows a violation.
Just to clarify, the sentence in red goes with Art. 8 only. It does not apply to Art. 7. The action in Art. 7 has contact and is a personal foul, not a violation.
JR...here's one for ya.
The other night, I called an Unsportsmanlike conduct, dead ball technical foul on a player for swinging his elbow/forearm at the back of an opponent. The player missed with his "swing" and in my judgement he did it on purpose out of frustration. It wasn't a really hard swing but it was one that IMO needed to be addressed.

The ball had just gone OOB on the endline and my partner who was L had the call. I was T and had a good look at all the players near the endline on my side of the court. That is when it happened, while all the players were struggling for the loose ball that went OOB.
I saw the "swing"...immediately blew my whistle and whack...got him. The opponent's Coach was standing right next to me and apparently saw it to...he said, "Yes, thank you Dan! That's right."
The home Coach was fine. He asked me what happened, I told him. I also added that I probably could have ejected him. He pulled the player, talked to him...and when the player came back in he was very respectful. I got to talk to him during a dead ball...he said he didn't really think he was doing anything wrong, but respected my call.

Some may say I should have ejected the player...but, IMO that would have been to much. Also, to do nothing wouldn't have been enough.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 11:59am
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
[/B]
The other night, I called an Unsportsmanlike conduct, dead ball technical foul on a player for swinging his elbow/forearm at the back of an opponent. The player missed with his "swing" and in my judgement he did it on purpose out of frustration. It wasn't a really hard swing but it was one that IMO needed to be addressed.

[/B][/QUOTE]Good call and good game management imo- getting it before it became a problem.

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