T for the flop

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

You don't really mean 92 actual game-time minutes, do you? That would mean 15 4-minute overtimes. If the total time to play the games was an hour and a half though, that ain't that bad for girls JV.

15 OTs is definitely the officials' fault!

[Junker]

Originally posted by thumpferee
I have had 4 rediculously obvious flops in the last 4 games.

Sorry all, I just haven't had the nerve to call them a T. I know it's a POE this year, but I just can't justify calling it. I try and tell the player it is suppose to be a T by rule, I just hope they learn to play better defense instead of the theatrics.

I once told a player he should have gotten a T for that. One of his teammates said, "why? for flopping?" I said "No, for bad acting". Had a good laugh.

I really didn't want to call it, but since everyone in the gym know the visiting team had been warned, I pretty much had too. I will say the kid I called it on was probably the worst actor I've ever seen. He made it easy for me.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by SouthGARef
Had my worst game of the year last night. Girls JV went 92 minutes. 23 jump balls. 46 fouls. All were there.

The boys game went well. I'm still of the opinion that JV girls basketball should be outlawed in most states.

Only 23 held balls?

I had a game where we had 63!

37-0 at the half, the team with 0 had TWO shot attempts in the half, and the second was AFTER the horn on a long 3 pointer that went in.

This team could not bring it up under man to man pressure. At the first hint of a defender the ball would hit a knee or foot and we'd have a tie up on the floor. We averaged about 10 seconds of running clock before a whistle. The game took almost 2 and a half hours to finish.

[Forksref]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Tony,
Could we explore this a little more?

I'm of the opinion that EVERY technical foul on bench personnel has to be charged directly to some individual.
In other words, I don't believe that you can justify making it a team technical foul even though you are unsure who said it. I think that you have to pick someone over there and charge it to that person, which could be considered worse if you are incorrect.
Although, I actually do happen to share your philosophy somewhat. That behavior can't be overlooked just because the official isn't sure of the specific offender. I would just like to see the soccer policy adopted.
(In soccer the NFHS specifically put in a rule that the coach gets the card if the referee can't determine which bench member made the comment.)
But I don't believe that our current NFHS Basketball Rules Book supports the decision your crew made.

If I don't know who said it, I'm going to give the coach the indirect T. Unless he is a total dimwit, he's going to take care of the individual to make sure it doesn't happen again. I think that it is the purpose of the indirect. I am not going to worry about the other bench person if I don't know exactly who it was. If the coach doesn't clean up the bench, then he will be the first to go.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by blindzebra

37-0 at the half, the team with 0 had TWO shot attempts in the half, and the second was AFTER the horn on a long 3 pointer that went in.

Well, in that case, the team only had one shot attempt . . .

[Adam]

Yesterday in a Y game, had a kid try to pull this. I no-called it and warned him as he was getting up. His coach was giving me this "why wasn't that a charge" look when I came up (I was table side) to him. I said, "He flopped, coach, he's lucky I didn't give him a technical." Just then, one of his players came to the top of the arc to set a screen and just plowed into the defender. Tweet!

[Edited by Snaqwells on Jan 23rd, 2005 at 11:07 PM]

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Forksref

If I don't know who said it, I'm going to give the coach the indirect T. Unless he is a total dimwit, he's going to take care of the individual to make sure it doesn't happen again. I think that it is the purpose of the indirect. I am not going to worry about the other bench person if I don't know exactly who it was. If the coach doesn't clean up the bench, then he will be the first to go.

Forks,
Perhaps I was unclear or maybe you are just being a little sloppy in your terminology. There is no question that the head coach gets an indirect. The issue is who gets the direct and if there MUST be one. I say that the answer is yes. You can't have an indirect without a direct in a NFHS contest.
The chart on page 73 of the rules book says to charge a bench personnel technical foul directly to the substitute or other bench personnel member, as well as indirectly to the head coach, and it counts as a team foul toward the bonus.
Now your idea is similar to that of NFHS soccer. If you can't tell the T goes DIRECTLY to the head coach. (You said indirect.) In soccer it is a card instead of T, but amounts to the same thing. However, I don't believe that it is permissible to handle it this way either in NFHS basketball. The rules just don't support it.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

You don't really mean 92 actual game-time minutes, do you? That would mean 15 4-minute overtimes. If the total time to play the games was an hour and a half though, that ain't that bad for girls JV.

15 overtimes is understandable, but why would you play 4 minute OT's for JV?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan

15 overtimes is understandable, but why would you play 4 minute OT's for JV?

....because the rule book tells me to?

Rule5-5-1 sez you play 4 x 8 minute quarters in high school.
Rule 5-5-2 sez you play 6 minute quarters for players below the ninth grade-which ain't JV.
Rule 5-7-3 sez each extra period is 4 minutes or half the time of a regulation quarter for non-varsity contests. Regulation quarters in JV are 8 minutes, by rule.

If your schools are playing different OT lengths than 4 minutes, they aren't following the rule book.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

....because the rule book tells me to?

Rule5-5-1 sez you play 4 x 8 minute quarters in high school.
Rule 5-5-2 sez you play 6 minute quarters for players below the ninth grade-which ain't JV.
Rule 5-7-3 sez each extra period is 4 minutes or half the time of a regulation quarter for non-varsity contests. Regulation quarters in JV are 8 minutes, by rule.

If your schools are playing different OT lengths than 4 minutes, they aren't following the rule book.

Sorry, I just assumed that since we do it this way, everybody else does also. Sometimes, when your state does something different than Fed, you adopt that as gospel. We do it like this:
V = 8 minute quarters with 4 minute OT's.
Sub V = 7 minute quarters with 3 minute OT's.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
If your schools are playing different OT lengths than 4 minutes, they aren't following the rule book.

Unless, of course, they're following 5-5-3

[Smitty]

Originally posted by Junker
How was everyone else's night?

Glad it was over. I had a rotten day at work on Friday, was looking forward to my game to start the weekend on a better note. Ugh. Game ends up 62-7. Then I find out I was being evaluated. I just wanted to go home. The guy evaluating me had 3 comments for me as I'm dressing. I stand too deep on free throws. I am too close to the endline as lead. And I need to spit my whistle out on out-of-bounds plays when I shout out team color and point. I was as cordial as I could muster, then just happy to get in the car and call it a day.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Unless, of course, they're following 5-5-3

I wish everybody would follow 5-5-3.

[Baseman611]

Filled in for a fellow referee in a pinch. With fever, aches and all managed to call four youth league games. And the coaches still cried about things. NO mercy for the feeble I guess.

Rhino

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Baseman611
NO mercy for the feeble I guess.

Them that's got shall get,
Them that's not shall lose,
So the Bible says,
And it still ain't news...