Crazy Frosh Game & Coach

[Chess Ref]

i did a double OT Frosh game last night that also had the coach ejected for two technicals. The first call of the night went against this coach and the fun began. Things like scraeming at us about ball hitting the side of the basket is out of bounds, if defender moves its automatically an offensive foul, Its obvious this is my first game etc. etc. At this junction the rules clinic is over. In a previous thread I got some advice on the three step method for dealing with coaches. The "I hear you coach" then "I will look for it coach" and finally "enough" with a stop sign.So I used the 3 step method. Well I make a foul call in front of his bench and a little too loud he says " Only an idiot would make that call " So I T him. Then in a louder voice he goes " Now I know you are an idiot" So I T him a second time. Should I have let him have the two comments for 1 technical or were two Tees justified. They were two distinct comments seperated by about 10 seconds.
Also the fans were just nasty and vile. Some of the stuff screamed was unbelievable. But I believe me & partner called a pretty good game.
The Teed coaches team won by two at buzzer of second OT
The JV game was nice and quiet a thirty point blowout. Just kinda of feeling not good about calling a T on a coach and then having him ejected.
Any and all feed back is needed and appreciated.

[golfdesigner]

Originally posted by Chess Ref
In a previous thread I got some advice on the three step method for dealing with coaches. The "I hear you coach" then "I will look for it coach" and finally "enough" with a stop sign.So I used the 3 step method. Well I make a foul call in front of his bench and a little too loud he says " Only an idiot would make that call " So I T him. Then in a louder voice he goes " Now I know you are an idiot" So I T him a second time. Should I have let him have the two comments for 1 technical or were two Tees justified. They were two distinct comments seperated by about 10 seconds.
Just kinda of feeling not good about calling a T on a coach and then having him ejected.
Any and all feed back is needed and appreciated.

Remember, you did not "give" him the T, he "earned" it.

[mick]

Originally posted by Chess Ref
Just kinda of feeling not good about calling a T on a coach and then having him ejected.
Any and all feed back is needed and appreciated.

Chess Ref,
Sounds like he made it very easy for you.
...Fool's mate.
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Chess Ref
Well I make a foul call in front of his bench and a little too loud he says " Only an idiot would make that call " So I T him. Then in a louder voice he goes " Now I know you are an idiot" So I T him a second time. Should I have let him have the two comments for 1 technical or were two Tees justified.

Two righteous "T"s. Good job. Can't let anyone out there call you names ever- that always a no-no. You don't warn for name-calling.

[Grail]

Not feeling good about tossing the coach? I'd be feeling great about tossing a blow-hard like that. He was out of line from the beginning and deserved everything he got. It's not like you didn't give him enough warnings (not that you owed him any). Hold your head high and feel good. He asked for the Ts and he got them.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Sounds like 2 T's were very justified and I'd say equally justified is a call to your Assignor and check if you're required to send a report to the state office.

Plus, this fool has probably gotten away with treating other refs simularily and you just made it easier on whoever get's him next.

[ditttoo]

Feeling uneasy about the T's? Why? Right or wrong you T'd him the first time and right or wrong you T'd him a second time. Make sure you know WHY you're T'ing him the first time and ABSOLUTELY SURE why you're T'ing him for #2. When you're ABSOLUTELY SURE, it's hard to feel bad.

Everyone who's ever been through that type situation feels the same exact way. But don't question your decision afterward - make certain of your decision BEFORE you react to avoid any self second guessing. You'll have to determine why you feel uneasy but I'm guessing it's because you feel uneasy about not being able to maintain control of the game - that's good, because that's what we're supposed to do. But sometimes you just can't fix stupid and that's what the coach was in this case - STUPID!

Tolerence and patience are one thing and you exhibited that during the "rules clinic", but even tolerence or patience can't fix stupid - WHACK 'em! You absolutely did the right thing!

[Chess Ref]

Not really second guessing myself. More of a Wow-this coach got ejected. When it went down i was very calm and emontionless about it. i just thought "Hey he can't call me names " and then thinking" he can"t call me names louder" . I am a first year ref so obviously my game management skills are in a learning cycle. For some reason i expected better behavior from coaches. you know in the coaches offices there are all these inspiritational points to ponder about character and honor blah, blah. Then at the lower levels some of the coaches are just out of control. It is beginning to dawn on me the powers to be will let anyone coach these kids regardless of training, experience, education and disposition.
I don't feel the game got out of control-pretty fun game once he left. i liked the comment tolerance and patience can't fix stupid...

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by Chess Ref
Not really second guessing myself. More of a Wow-this coach got ejected. When it went down i was very calm and emontionless about it. i just thought "Hey he can't call me names " and then thinking" he can"t call me names louder" . I am a first year ref so obviously my game management skills are in a learning cycle. For some reason i expected better behavior from coaches. you know in the coaches offices there are all these inspiritational points to ponder about character and honor blah, blah. Then at the lower levels some of the coaches are just out of control. It is beginning to dawn on me the powers to be will let anyone coach these kids regardless of training, experience, education and disposition.
I don't feel the game got out of control-pretty fun game once he left. i liked the comment tolerance and patience can't fix stupid...

When you called the first Tee where was your partner at the time? Perhaps if your partner got their in time to be the "good cop" he might of been able to calm the Coach down then again the guy sounds like an idiot and got what he deserved.
Also after calling the Tee make your report quickly and get to the division line opposite the table and away from him. For the next several minutes if at all possible work trail or lead opposite the table to let things settle down. Try to avoid being the official calling the second Tee if possible (Don't have to do paper work LOL) however if you have no choice "you gotta do what you gotta do."

Above all remeber you don't give Tees. Tees are earned.

Sounds like you did the right thing. Good job.

[tjones1]

You did right. Obviously he was the idiot for making those two comments! T's are earned and he earned himself a place in the locker room or outside. Good job.

[bgtg19]

Just piling on to say ... good job. Most of us don't like to run coaches, but he earned his departure.

Just to clarify what others have suggested. My partner and I usually try to pre-game what we'll do in situations where you might have to run a coach. We *try* - but do not always succeed - to have different officials give out the two Ts. If his second comment, said in a "louder voice," was loud enough for me as your partner to hear, I would have taken care of that second T for you. If I couldn't/didn't hear it or take care of it, you'd be right to take care of it yourself, as you did. Nicely done.

[gordon30307]

Hey Chess Ref I thought of one more thing you might try when a Coach mutters something walking away that only you and he heard. Say I'm sorry Coach but I didn't hear what you said (he knows that you did) do you mind repeating. Never had one repeat it and if he did Tee him again. Smart Coaches know you heard the remark and that you gave them a break. Smart Coaches will now probably leave you alone. However, as we all know not all Coaches are smart.

Haven't had to do it yet this year (just lucky I guess) but it has worked for me in the past.

[Back In The Saddle]

Good job. He didn't give you much choice, did he?

I had one thought that may be of use to you. I pre-game with my partners that after a T is given, we meet at center court, even before reporting. It can be an emotional moment and we want a chance to get a couple of deep breaths and to make sure we both know what we're going to do next.

In a situation like yours, if you had T'd him and then moved away from him out to center court, he may have chosen to withhold the second remark. If not, he would have had to say it louder and your partner would be closer to grab the second T. Obviously I'm speculating because I wasn't there, but it's something to think about.

[Chess Ref]

I definetly appreciate the mechanics about the physicality of T's. If and when it happens i will have something else to consider-moving to center court with my partner. The thing I feel most comfortable with is i was emontially calm. Did not do any big historonics when I gave the T's -just very calmly issued them. But point taken if i was that close i would not have heard the second one, maybe. Anyway as usual I learn more and more about the correct way to do things from this board, for which today anyway I am grateful.