The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 12:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24
I think this has been covered but I have a two part question:

1. Airborne shooter releases ball after the clock expires in 4th quarter but is fouled on the way down. This would be one of the only situations where a successful basket is not allowed but two free throws are shot, correct?

2. If freethrows are being shot with no time on the clock may a time out be called?

Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 12:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 915
Quote:
Originally posted by RoyalsCoach
I think this has been covered but I have a two part question:

1. Airborne shooter releases ball after the clock expires in 4th quarter but is fouled on the way down. This would be one of the only situations where a successful basket is not allowed but two free throws are shot, correct?

2. If freethrows are being shot with no time on the clock may a time out be called?

Asssuming shot got off before cloak expired.

1. Basket counted if good. (assuming shooter is airborn)

2. If missed two free throws awarded as per above.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 12:17am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,735
Quote:
Originally posted by RoyalsCoach
I think this has been covered but I have a two part question:

1. Airborne shooter releases ball after the clock expires in 4th quarter but is fouled on the way down. This would be one of the only situations where a successful basket is not allowed but two free throws are shot, correct?

2. If freethrows are being shot with no time on the clock may a time out be called?


1. Assuming that the contact was neither intentional or flagrant, the contact is ignored and the period is over.

2. Yes, but only one timeout request can be honored.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 12:40am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 1,069
Hold on a second...

Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
__________________
"Stay in the game!"
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 01:19am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,612
Re: Hold on a second...

Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
You're missing the point, willie. The ball is dead but the airborne shooter, who is considered to be in the act of shooting, is still entitled to his FTs.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 02:47am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,674
Re: Re: Hold on a second...

Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
You're missing the point, willie. The ball is dead but the airborne shooter, who is considered to be in the act of shooting, is still entitled to his FTs.
Not if the foul occured after time expired, which is how I read the first post.

RoyalsCoach said, "Airborne A1 releases the ball after the clock expires in the 4th quarter, but is fouled on the way down."

Contact after time expires is nothing unless it is intentional or flagrant.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 05:32am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,735
Re: Re: Re: Hold on a second...

Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
You're missing the point, willie. The ball is dead but the airborne shooter, who is considered to be in the act of shooting, is still entitled to his FTs.
Not if the foul occured after time expired, which is how I read the first post.

RoyalsCoach said, "Airborne A1 releases the ball after the clock expires in the 4th quarter, but is fouled on the way down."

Contact after time expires is nothing unless it is intentional or flagrant.


OMG, BZ agreed with me. Will wonders never cease.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 11:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,612
Re: Re: Re: Hold on a second...

Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
You're missing the point, willie. The ball is dead but the airborne shooter, who is considered to be in the act of shooting, is still entitled to his FTs.
Not if the foul occured after time expired, which is how I read the first post.

RoyalsCoach said, "Airborne A1 releases the ball after the clock expires in the 4th quarter, but is fouled on the way down."

Contact after time expires is nothing unless it is intentional or flagrant.
Agreed. I mistakenly thought willie was ignoring a foul prior to the horn because the shot wasn't released on time.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 03:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,674
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hold on a second...

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
You're missing the point, willie. The ball is dead but the airborne shooter, who is considered to be in the act of shooting, is still entitled to his FTs.
Not if the foul occured after time expired, which is how I read the first post.

RoyalsCoach said, "Airborne A1 releases the ball after the clock expires in the 4th quarter, but is fouled on the way down."

Contact after time expires is nothing unless it is intentional or flagrant.




OMG, BZ agreed with me. Will wonders never cease.

MTD, Sr.
Even you have to be right every now and then.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 10:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 1,069
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hold on a second...

Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.

Agreed. I mistakenly thought willie was ignoring a foul prior to the horn because the shot wasn't released on time. [/B]
It's ok.... I only CAPITALIZED the word AFTER in both places.
__________________
"Stay in the game!"
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 17, 2005, 01:23am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
HOLD THE PHONE

in the following sequence:
1. shot released by A1, an airborne shooter.
2. horn
3. illegal contact by B1 on the airborne shooter.
4. shooter lands

This is a shooting foul. Don't we still have to protect the shooter here? Isn't he (or she) protected until landing, even if the horn has sounded. For one, the ball isn't dead until the try ends.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 17, 2005, 04:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,627
Quote:
Originally posted by Snaqwells
in the following sequence:
1. shot released by A1, an airborne shooter.
2. horn
3. illegal contact by B1 on the airborne shooter.
4. shooter lands

This is a shooting foul. Don't we still have to protect the shooter here? Isn't he (or she) protected until landing, even if the horn has sounded. For one, the ball isn't dead until the try ends.
Snaqwells,
In your given sequence it is obviously a foul, but that is not what is being discussed.
The sequence is:
1. A1 starts his try and jumps into the air
2. HORN sounds
3. A1 releases the ball
4. B1 contacts A1 before A1 lands

As you can see this situation is different. Since the ball is still in A1's hands when the horn sounds, the try ends at that point and the ball is dead. 6-7
The contact is also NOT a foul despite what is stated in 4-19-1 NOTE.
This is because the try ended before the release, so A1 never became an airborne shooter because the definition of that term (4-1-1) includes "a player who has released the ball on a try for goal" and that didn't happen here.

Bottom line: no try released = no airborne shooter = no foul, unless intentional or flagrant

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 17, 2005, 09:42am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Thanks, Nevada. I knew I had to be seeing something wrong since everyone seemed to agree with MTD.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:48am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1