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RoyalsCoach Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:02am
I think this has been covered but I have a two part question:

1. Airborne shooter releases ball after the clock expires in 4th quarter but is fouled on the way down. This would be one of the only situations where a successful basket is not allowed but two free throws are shot, correct?

2. If freethrows are being shot with no time on the clock may a time out be called?


gordon30307 Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:14am
Quote:
Originally posted by RoyalsCoach
I think this has been covered but I have a two part question:

1. Airborne shooter releases ball after the clock expires in 4th quarter but is fouled on the way down. This would be one of the only situations where a successful basket is not allowed but two free throws are shot, correct?

2. If freethrows are being shot with no time on the clock may a time out be called?

Asssuming shot got off before cloak expired.

1. Basket counted if good. (assuming shooter is airborn)

2. If missed two free throws awarded as per above.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:17am
Quote:
Originally posted by RoyalsCoach
I think this has been covered but I have a two part question:

1. Airborne shooter releases ball after the clock expires in 4th quarter but is fouled on the way down. This would be one of the only situations where a successful basket is not allowed but two free throws are shot, correct?

2. If freethrows are being shot with no time on the clock may a time out be called?


1. Assuming that the contact was neither intentional or flagrant, the contact is ignored and the period is over.

2. Yes, but only one timeout request can be honored.

MTD, Sr.

williebfree Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:40am
Hold on a second...
 
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.

BktBallRef Sun Jan 16, 2005 01:19am
Re: Hold on a second...
 
Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
You're missing the point, willie. The ball is dead but the airborne shooter, who is considered to be in the act of shooting, is still entitled to his FTs.

blindzebra Sun Jan 16, 2005 02:47am
Re: Re: Hold on a second...
 
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
You're missing the point, willie. The ball is dead but the airborne shooter, who is considered to be in the act of shooting, is still entitled to his FTs.
Not if the foul occured after time expired, which is how I read the first post.

RoyalsCoach said, "Airborne A1 releases the ball after the clock expires in the 4th quarter, but is fouled on the way down."

Contact after time expires is nothing unless it is intentional or flagrant.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sun Jan 16, 2005 05:32am
Re: Re: Re: Hold on a second...
 
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
You're missing the point, willie. The ball is dead but the airborne shooter, who is considered to be in the act of shooting, is still entitled to his FTs.
Not if the foul occured after time expired, which is how I read the first post.

RoyalsCoach said, "Airborne A1 releases the ball after the clock expires in the 4th quarter, but is fouled on the way down."

Contact after time expires is nothing unless it is intentional or flagrant.


OMG, BZ agreed with me. Will wonders never cease.

MTD, Sr.

BktBallRef Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:25am
Re: Re: Re: Hold on a second...
 
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
You're missing the point, willie. The ball is dead but the airborne shooter, who is considered to be in the act of shooting, is still entitled to his FTs.
Not if the foul occured after time expired, which is how I read the first post.

RoyalsCoach said, "Airborne A1 releases the ball after the clock expires in the 4th quarter, but is fouled on the way down."

Contact after time expires is nothing unless it is intentional or flagrant.
Agreed. I mistakenly thought willie was ignoring a foul prior to the horn because the shot wasn't released on time.

blindzebra Sun Jan 16, 2005 03:00pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hold on a second...
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Exception: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
…3. A foul is committed by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire BEFORE the ball was in flight.

This will probably be controversial on this forum (and unpopular with the shooter’s team and fans), but…..

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.
You're missing the point, willie. The ball is dead but the airborne shooter, who is considered to be in the act of shooting, is still entitled to his FTs.
Not if the foul occured after time expired, which is how I read the first post.

RoyalsCoach said, "Airborne A1 releases the ball after the clock expires in the 4th quarter, but is fouled on the way down."

Contact after time expires is nothing unless it is intentional or flagrant.




OMG, BZ agreed with me. Will wonders never cease.

MTD, Sr.
Even you have to be right every now and then.:D

williebfree Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:40pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hold on a second...
 
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:
Originally posted by williebfree
Page 48 of NFHS Rulebook:

Rule 6- Section 7 DEAD BALL

Based on the above-cited rule, I would interpret this as contact that occurred AFTER time had expired and AFTER the ball was released. Therefore, no foul, game over, unless the score was tied. Then we are going into OT.

Agreed. I mistakenly thought willie was ignoring a foul prior to the horn because the shot wasn't released on time. [/B]
It's ok.... I only CAPITALIZED the word AFTER in both places. :)

Adam Mon Jan 17, 2005 01:23am
HOLD THE PHONE
 
in the following sequence:
1. shot released by A1, an airborne shooter.
2. horn
3. illegal contact by B1 on the airborne shooter.
4. shooter lands

This is a shooting foul. Don't we still have to protect the shooter here? Isn't he (or she) protected until landing, even if the horn has sounded. For one, the ball isn't dead until the try ends.

Nevadaref Mon Jan 17, 2005 04:07am
Quote:
Originally posted by Snaqwells
in the following sequence:
1. shot released by A1, an airborne shooter.
2. horn
3. illegal contact by B1 on the airborne shooter.
4. shooter lands

This is a shooting foul. Don't we still have to protect the shooter here? Isn't he (or she) protected until landing, even if the horn has sounded. For one, the ball isn't dead until the try ends.
Snaqwells,
In your given sequence it is obviously a foul, but that is not what is being discussed.
The sequence is:
1. A1 starts his try and jumps into the air
2. HORN sounds
3. A1 releases the ball
4. B1 contacts A1 before A1 lands

As you can see this situation is different. Since the ball is still in A1's hands when the horn sounds, the try ends at that point and the ball is dead. 6-7
The contact is also NOT a foul despite what is stated in 4-19-1 NOTE.
This is because the try ended before the release, so A1 never became an airborne shooter because the definition of that term (4-1-1) includes "a player who has released the ball on a try for goal" and that didn't happen here.

Bottom line: no try released = no airborne shooter = no foul, unless intentional or flagrant

Adam Mon Jan 17, 2005 09:42am
Thanks, Nevada. I knew I had to be seeing something wrong since everyone seemed to agree with MTD. :)


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