NCAA vs FED

[thumpferee]

NCAA rules.

Had a situation last night. I called an intentional foul late in the game. B1 grabbed A1 from behind. After the two free throws, gave the ball back to team A for a throw-in at designated spot nearest the spot where foul occured. One of my P's dissagreed, saying that the ball should have been inbounded opposite table at the midcourt line.

My questions are:
NCAA-Is the only time ball is awarded opposite table @ the midcourt line is on an intentional technical, or flagrant technical? Otherwise POI? The foul summary chart gives 3 different examples, POI, Designated spot, (what are differences there?) and opposite table midcourt line.

FED-On all technical fouls, the ball is placed for a throw-in opposite table @ midcourt. On intentional fouls or flagrant fouls, it is POI, correct?


I edited this cause it brought up another point on mechanics. On technical fouls, does the calling official go opposite table?


[Edited by thumpferee on Jan 6th, 2005 at 07:39 AM]

[Ref in PA]

Originally posted by thumpferee


FED-On all technical fouls, the ball is placed for a throw-in opposite table @ midcourt. On intentional fouls or flagrant fouls, it is POI, correct?

Correct.

Originally posted by thumpferee

I edited this cause it brought up another point on mechanics. On technical fouls, does the calling official go opposite table?

In PA we pregame this. New this year the calling official stays table side. However, some officials do not feel comfortable staying when they just called a T. So, depending on the crew, we decide in the pregame where we will go. PA gives us the option.

[ref18]

Originally posted by thumpferee


FED-On all technical fouls, the ball is placed for a throw-in opposite table @ midcourt. On intentional fouls or flagrant fouls, it is POI, correct?

There is no POI in the Fed game, on intentional and flagerant fouls the ball is given to the offended team at the designated spot nearest where the foul occured. Intentional and flagerant T's are given at centre court across from the table to the offended team.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by thumpferee
My questions are:
NCAA-Is the only time ball is awarded opposite table @ the midcourt line is on an intentional technical, or flagrant technical? Otherwise POI? The foul summary chart gives 3 different examples, POI, Designated spot, (what are differences there?) and opposite table midcourt line.

1) The "division line" throw-in need not be opposite the table in NCAA -- if the team wants it to be table side, they can have it there.

2) POI might be a FT, or the ball location might be different, and the throw-in goes to the team in control. "Designated spot" goes to the offended team at the spot nearest the foul.

3) A T for excesive TO in NCAAW also results in a desgnated spot throw in.

[IREFU2]

Intentional Fouls, ball is placed at the spot of the Foul or nearest to it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Ref in PA

Correct.

As others have said there is no POI in NFHS. So this is not entirely correct.
If you mean flagrant personal fouls and intentional personal fouls, then the NCAA handles them exactly as the NFHS does. As far as I know.
Additionally, flagrant technical fouls and intentional technical fouls (men only rule) are also handled the same way as the NFHS.

POI is used in NCAA games for the following: Indirect technicals, direct technicals, double fouls + simultaneous fouls (personal: if there was team control, AP if not; technical: POI), and bench restriction technicals.

A little confusing, but that's how it works.

Originally posted by Ref in PA

In PA we pregame this. New this year the calling official stays table side. However, some officials do not feel comfortable staying when they just called a T. So, depending on the crew, we decide in the pregame where we will go. PA gives us the option.

We pregame that if the T is on a coach we go opposite, but if it is charged to a player the calling official goes tableside. The coach may want a word and he should be reasonable.



[Edited by Nevadaref on Jan 6th, 2005 at 09:58 AM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
POI is used in NCAA games for the following: Indirect technicals, direct technicals, double fouls + simultaneous fouls (personal: if there was team control, AP if not; technical: POI), and bench restriction technicals.

Oops! In NCAA, the POI is not used for double personal fouls or simultaneous personal fouls. For double T's, we go with the POI. For double personals, we give the ball back to the team in control; if there's no team control, we go to the arrow.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

1) The "division line" throw-in need not be opposite the table in NCAA -- if the team wants it to be table side, they can have it there.

While the option is certainly present for a throw-in from either end of the division line, is that necessarily the team's decision to make? Or is it the administering official's? The rulebook is a bit ambiguous, and I was wondering where you recieved this interpretation.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

While the option is certainly present for a throw-in from either end of the division line, is that necessarily the team's decision to make? Or is it the administering official's? The rulebook is a bit ambiguous, and I was wondering where you recieved this interpretation.

Can't speak for Bob, but we were given the interp several years ago at the annual meeting...if the team chooses to inbound it from table side, that's where we go...

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Oops! In NCAA, the POI is not used for double personal fouls or simultaneous personal fouls. For double T's, we go with the POI. For double personals, we give the ball back to the team in control; if there's no team control, we go to the arrow.

Hello???? McChuck??? Is anybody home in there?

What do you think this means? "double fouls + simultaneous fouls (personal: if there was team control, AP if not; technical: POI)"

I wrote exactly what you "corrected." Unless you can explain to me how giving the ball back to the team in control without a reset of the shot clock differs from picking up from the point of interruption.
I certainly consider that to be the point of interruption.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Unless you can explain to me how giving the ball back to the team in control without a reset of the shot clock differs from picking up from the point of interruption.
I certainly consider that to be the point of interruption.

First of all, you didn't write exactly what I corrected. You wrote

POI is used in NCAA games for the following: Indirect technicals, direct technicals, double fouls + simultaneous fouls

and that is simply not true. The POI is used for double technicals, but NOT for double personals. This is made explicit in the appropriate penalty section in Rule 10 (I don't have my book, so I don't have the exact section number) and in the Summary of Fouls chart at the back of the book.

Second, the only difference that I know of takes place when a double foul is called during a successful try. I mentioned this in another thread recently. PLAY: A1 releases a try for goal. While the ball is in the air A2 and B2 are charged with (a) a double personal foul; or (b) a double technical foul. The try is successful. RULING: In (a) since there is no team control, play is resumed with an AP throw-in. In (b) since the try is successful, the POI is a throw-in for Team B anywhere along the endline.

I have no idea what the rationale is for the difference, but there is (apparently) a difference.