Your automatic Ts pet peeves?

tjones1 · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 02, 2005, 05:43pm

What are your automatic Ts? Like: slamming a ball (either going above their head or if they don't catch it), a coach or player questioning your integrity, etc.? What are yours?

ref18 · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 02, 2005, 06:13pm

I'm going to assume you mean automatic unsporting T's

Things that fall under that category are:

-Coach swearing at me
-player swearing at me
-coach running onto court screaming at me
-any intentional physical contact between me and a coach/player will result in a flagerant T
-coach kicks chair across gym
-coach giving the table crew a hard time
-If a coach at any time is yelling at me saying, "Ref, call something" or "Call a foul" I'm more than happy to comply by calling one against him/her

There are probably a few more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

IREFU2 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 09:37am

Slamming the ball is an automatic "t" for me and even reaching across the end line and slapping the ball are the two easiest ways to get wacked!

ChuckElias · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 10:36am

Quote:

Originally posted by IREFU2
Slamming the ball is an automatic "t" for me

I know a lot of people feel that way, and maybe I just need to wake up and smell the coffee, but why is slamming the ball an automatic? What's so terrible about it? It's usually directed at oneself, not at the officiating, in my experience. It seems to me to be a lot like the kid who is called for a foul and then goes and slams his hand against the padding on the wall.

I'm just asking. I had one of these this year already. The ball bounced about rim-high and came right down into my hands and neither my partner nor I whistled it.

IREFU2 · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 10:51am

Without getting into a long dissertation about this, I have seen players slam the ball for many reasons. It is my belief that if you slam the basketball and it goes substantially higher than your head, then that is an unsporting act and I dont tollerate that. Once again, its a judgement call on the officials behalf. Every slammed ball I have seen this season has deserved a "t" and the coachs totally agreed with the call and corrected the players action afterwards.

FrankHtown · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 10:59am

I think slamming the ball tends to incite the crowd, and maybe the player is upset with himself, but if a player misses a layup, and runs down court and drops a loud F-bomb, even if he was mad at himself, I'm sure you'd take some action.

It's a game distraction I feel needs to be dealt with. Also, If you don't penalize the first one, you better not penalize any other ones.

Hotlink501 · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 06:56pm

So what your saying ChuckElias is that slamming the ball is not an act of displeasure with you or your partners call? How do you know? Did you ask the player and thats what he or she told you. Also, I would be very inclined to give a whack to a player or coach that slammed their hand against the padding on the wall or elsewhere if I had just made a call against them or him, because I feel like that is showing disgust with with my call. Sort of like if the coach slams down his clipboard during the game to show his displeasure in your calls. Wouldn't this deserve a whack?

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 07:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Hotlink501

So what your saying ChuckElias is that slamming the ball is not an act of displeasure with you or your partners call? How do you know? Did you ask the player and thats what he or she told you. Also, I would be very inclined to give a whack to a player or coach that slammed their hand against the padding on the wall or elsewhere if I had just made a call against them or him, because I feel like that is showing disgust with with my call. Sort of like if the coach slams down his clipboard during the game to show his displeasure in your calls. Wouldn't this deserve a whack?

I am not going to speak for Chuck, but I agree with his question. You do not know and that is the problem. I think I need more than just the ball bouncing. A look. A gesture. Something outside of just bouncing the ball on the ground. And if a coach slams down the clipboard, who is to say he is upset with you? Could he not be upset with his player that put himself in a bad situation? I will not speak for anyone else, but I do not see this as automatic unless you know their actions are directed towards you. If it is just frustration with themselves it is not automatic. I might take a couple of seconds to come to that conclusion, but I will not pull the trigger without some other markers.

Peace

ref18 · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 07:20pm

This is just me, but I don't care why you're slamming the ball but if you slam the ball I'm T-ing you up every single time. This comes from what I was taught in football, if a player spikes the ball for any reason we're told to flag it. At the beginning of the season you see it a bit, but at the end of the season no one spikes the ball anymore because they know we're going to call it.

I believe the same holds true for basketball, I don't care why you're slamming the ball its a T. Just like if a player kicked the ball accross the court in response to his frustration with himself or his teammates. Just because he isn't reacting to your call are you just going to let it go??? I hope not.

Hotlink501 · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 07:24pm

Exactly what I'm saying ref18, you are penalizing the unsporting act, not their intentions.

mick · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 07:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
What's so terrible about it? It's usually directed at oneself, not at the officiating, in my experience. It seems to me to be a lot like the kid who is called for a foul and then goes and slams his hand against the padding on the wall.

A.> 10-6-a
B.> 10-6-b
C.> 10-7-a
D.> None of the above
E.> Some of the above
F.> All of the above

mick

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 07:39pm

The more and more I officiate the less and less I find my self saying I have an "automatic." For one, the most obvious situations are never that easy. I do not see players slamming the ball down, so I cannot say how I would react to it if it took place. I used to say if a coach questions my integrity, but that is not automatic for me anymore. Anytime a coach points out the foul count, is that not questioning your integrity? I do not see other officials give a T for that. They might comment or ask them, "Are you questioning my integrity?" When I have said that to a coach they quickly back down or try to "clarify" their position. Even if a coach curses, it depends on what they are cursing about. I do think if a coach is getting personal you could give them a T, but that is open to interpretation. Calling me a name is getting personal, but so is making a comment about my officiating. I have never had a coach call me a name yet. I have had several question my ability as an official. I do not give Ts if a coach is complaining.

What I have found is if you say what you will do "automatically" you do not leave yourself any wiggle room. I do have things I will address. I do not condone all behavior. I just do not see a one size fits all solution to solving problems.

Peace

mick · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 07:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I am not going to speak for Chuck, but I agree with his question. You do not know and that is the problem. I think I need more than just the ball bouncing. A look. A gesture. .... I might take a couple of seconds to come to that conclusion, but I will not pull the trigger without some other markers.

Rut,
There's something to that.

After slamming the ball the kid:

Catches it.

Walks away from it.

Retrieves it.

I agree that those actions are not characteristically equal.

mick

JRutledge · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 07:45pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Rut,
There's something to that.

After slamming the ball the kid:

Catches it.

Walks away from it.

Retrieves it.

I agree that those actions are not characteristically equal.

mick

My point exactly Mick. It might take a split second, but I would not say just because they slammed the ball I would not wait to see the following take place before I made a decision.

Peace

Mark Padgett · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 08:14pm

Yeah - it's an automatic T from me when the coach runs out on the floor, throws his clipboard at me, punches my partner in the face, takes out a hockey stick and tries to bash the scorer over the head, then runs out into the parking lot and crashes his car into the gym, yelling profanities and ethnic remarks the entire time.

I don't know about you other guys, but I just won't tolerate this.

It's also an automatic T if the assistant coach takes off his pants and shows his shortcomings.