When to whack...counting out loud...

[ref18]

Now for any officials who work college ball, are you expected to call a 10 second violation when the shot clock reaches 20 seconds, or are you expected to go with your own pace of visible counting??

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ref18
Now for any officials who work college ball, are you expected to call a 10 second violation when the shot clock reaches 20 seconds, or are you expected to go with your own pace of visible counting??

If NC2A rules are the same as Fed, a 10-second count may not start until after the shot clock starts.

[ref18]

But can the shot clock be used as the determining factor, or does it rely on the officials count??

[JugglingReferee]

If the shot clock can be used, the official would have to know that the shot clock started simultaneously with the game clock. Can that be guaranteed? I am not so sure.

I think in the NBA they can use the s.c. because the s.c. by rule starts when the g.c. does.

Of course, I might be completely wrong.

[ref18]

But the shot clock doesn't have to start with the game clock. The shot clock starts when the team gains control, while the game clock starts when the ball is touched. Also the backcourt count starts when the team gains backcourt control.

[Camron Rust]

Most of the count speed comments are more perception than reality. If I put a number on it, about 90%+ of refs counts are too slow (if timed with a stopwatch) by a large amount. Many will be 15-20 seconds.

If you are told your count is too fast but upon checking it with a watch it is right on or even still to slow, try shortening the arm movement. A very full arm movement will look very fast even if it is right.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
If you are told your count is too fast but upon checking it with a watch it is right on or even still to slow, try shortening the arm movement. A very full arm movement will look very fast even if it is right.

I was told that my count was too fast, even though it was very close. Now, i don't move my arm at all, just use an emphatic wrist flick, and then hold my hand still for most of each second. This has completely ended any criticism.

[jdccpa]

Hey...what if my partner is giving them 20 sec. to get the ball over mid court and I am only giving them 10 sec. and he/she is giving them 8 or 9 sec. to get the ball in play and I am only giving them 5 sec. I usually do not watch my partners counting during a game. Most coaches are tuned in to our counting and will call a time out when they see they are in jeopardy of losing the ball. So they are watching both refs count.

I have never see it listed anywhere as a pre-game topic but it seems to me that our counting cadences should also be covered in our pre-game.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
If NC2A rules are the same as Fed, a 10-second count may not start until after the shot clock starts.

There are no FED rules for the shot clock. . .

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by ref18
Now for any officials who work college ball, are you expected to call a 10 second violation when the shot clock reaches 20 seconds, or are you expected to go with your own pace of visible counting??

Around here, we're expected to keep a visible count. But I trust the shot clock more than my count.

[Richard Ogg]

If you have a shot clock, then its best to match that count or have a good story. Nothing like making a 10-second call with the shot clock showing only 8 seconds gone, or crossing the division line when the shot clock show 12+ seconds gone and you don't have a call.

I find a quick glance at the shot clock around "1" (if possible - to see if it started) and again around 8 to check my pace works well for me.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Yep, that's what they say. But even better is to keep an eye on the shot clock.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ref18
But the shot clock doesn't have to start with the game clock. The shot clock starts when the team gains control, while the game clock starts when the ball is touched. Also the backcourt count starts when the team gains backcourt control.

Not in NCAA - on an inbounds pass, the shot clock is supposed to start when the ball touches a player or is touched inbounds.

Also, while it's possible to have a slight lag, most shot clocks are tied into the game clock so that when the game clock stops/starts, the shot clock stops/starts.

[ref18]

So on an inbounds pass control doesn't need to be established for the shot clock to start???

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ref18
So on an inbounds pass control doesn't need to be established for the shot clock to start???

Not under NCAA rules. This was changed 3-4 years ago to remove the ever present discrepencies between the shot clock and the backcourt count and the confusion (among coaches/fans/players) over the difference. This is generally the same since most inbounds passes are immediately controlled.