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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 01:58pm
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High school varsity game! seeded district game, rivalry, packed house!
Team A has taken 3 charges, team B has taken 3 charges...great defensive game, 1 pt game... coaches are coaching there hearts out to win and neither has said anything to either of us officials..(2 man) Team A's coach is up and where it is so loud, he moves a little closer to the action, a couple feet on the floor and almost to mid court...at that time we had a steal and my partner Ran the coach over that was standing about mid court yelling out defensive plays..... i almost blowed the whistle and called the 7th charge of the night...hahaha..... my question??? his team is going to the basket for a layup, but should he of been T-boned for being in the way and out of his box for coaching?????? my partner just got up and continued down the court, they made the layup and eventually won with a 3 at the buzzer.. the T would of been deserving, but would of probably changed the complexity of the game and probably changed the outcome..... it was deserving, should it of been called????? or was it right to let it go because of the ramifications?? And it was hilarious!!
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DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE! 
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 02:21pm
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Quote:
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Yom HaShoah
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 02:22pm
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Gotta love those rivalry games.
I think you should have called it if the coach broke the rule (BTW, I am not an official). I've heard a few folks mentioning the phrase "gaining advantage", but I think that phrase is misplaced. I'll give you personal example to illustrate where I am coming from. I was playing golf in my club's championship tournament this summer, and one of my tee shots ended up in the rough on a rock. There was a sprig of grass between the ball and the rock, and when I addressed the ball, the ball moved about a 1/4" from its original position, although it remained on the rock. I went ahead and hit the shot (about 20 feet back into the fairway). I gained no advantage from the ball moving, but I broke the rule, because I was to replace the ball under penalty of one stroke. Since I went ahead and hit the shot, there was a two-stroke penalty for breaching the rule. No one was around to see what happened, and I had to call the penalty on myself. I know golf is not basketball, but the principle is the same. If a rule is broken, then a penalty should be assessed...regardless of the situation, and regardless of the outcome. It occurs to me that the only protection from criticism an official has the Rule Book. I would think that if one consistently whistled all rules breaches, two things would happen: 1) Teams would learn to not break the rules; 2) No one would be able to question his/her motivation/integrity.
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 02:30pm
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i agree, it should of been called, that was my opinion all along.... Now should i have came over and called it, or since my partner was the one that ran him over should i have left it up to him to decide whether to call it or not??? i chose the ladder, and since he chose to let it go we played on.... i could have came acrossed and got it and helped out, what you guys have wanted to do??? call it yourself, or have your partner come in and get it, because we had a great view of it!!!!
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DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 02:30pm
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Gotta Pin Him
Jritchie,
This is my first year dealing with the coaching box (PA has finally decided to get with the times), but according to the multiple rules interpretation meetings that I have attended so far this year, this has to be a technical foul. I know in PA it has been stressed and stressed that if the coach is either on the court or not in the box, and contact is made w/ an official, whether intentional or not, the T is automatic and it better be called, or an observer is going to rip you a new one. I understand the ramifications that you would have faced, but let me ask the crowd a question. Preventive and common sense officiating aside, isn't our job to enforce the rules, and isn't this a violation of the rules? Anyone disagree with me here? Let me also say this, if your layup was a fast break, IMO I would have waited for the fast break to end, and then pin him. No one can really moan then--A gets their lay up and B gets the free throws and ball. Also, just curious...how much time was left? Two man game--come across and help your partner. He's probably shell shocked anyways for just blindsiding the coach. If you're sure, help him out.
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I know God would never give me more than I could handle, I just wish he wouldn't trust me so much.
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 02:39pm
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about two minutes was left..... and i left it up to my partner to call or not... since it was him that drilled him!! if it were me i couldn't of hit the whistle fast enough? i had already almost hit him myself but he was just straddling his box and coaching and hadn't said a word to us, so i let it slide... i agree totally we have rules to go by and he should of been got!! i just didn't think it was appropriate for me to come and get it at the time...but now that i have had time to think about it, i probably should have, because my partner was just a little embarassed and didn't need any more attention on himself...
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DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 02:39pm
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Didn't the opposing fans and coach go through the roof when you didn't T the guy up? Unfortunately you have to call this T because it is so obvious. I understand why you didn't, but in my opinion you probably should have.
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 02:43pm
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Re: Gotta Pin Him
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T him up. Let the other side shoot. I'll bet he doesn't get into that situation again. If it comes down to his team losing because of his mistake I don't think you have changed the outcome of the game.
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If you're going to be stupid, be all the way stupid!
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 02:47pm
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As far as coaching box's go...this region and most in the state...do not really do exactly what should be done...it's not one of the things that most worry about if the coach is not addressing officials..... although it has been discussed at length this year in our state meetings as a point of emphasis....not that it shouldn't be called, it just hasn't been in the past and it has gotten a little out of hand.....
so neither coaches or fans said anything at all because they are used to these coaches coaching all over the place.... they were both very animated and we have a lot more just like them in our region.. we do need to start throwing out some t's for it so they will get the picture, but it doesn't look like it has happened so far this year...i guess no one wants to set the first example!!!
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DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 02:51pm
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Re: Re: Gotta Pin Him
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The only reason I would wait is based on this: If you have an injury in the backcourt while a fast break is transitioning, do you blow the play dead immediately or do you wait for the fast break to end? Most officials I know do the latter. If you're going to pin him anyways, then what can it hurt to not wait a half second. Let me also say this though, a lot of that would depend on how close the offensive player is to the bucket; f/e, if he's only at mid-court, I'm pinning the coach.
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I know God would never give me more than I could handle, I just wish he wouldn't trust me so much.
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 03:10pm
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2 point take down
The rule is you can't be on the court (out of the coach's box).
You were already letting him be out of the box so essentially you had already decided not to T him for this rule violation. And perhaps it was appropriate. He wasn't harping on you; he was coaching his kids in a very noisy gym. You can't T him because you collided with him - that's not a rule. The collision was incidental and surely not intentional. I say you should have busted butt and covered the play for your partner and forgot about a T-bone. After the collision, regroup; call an official's time if your partner needs it to collect himself. Tell the coach he really needs to stay closer to home and definitely shouldn't be on the court or out in front of the table. Then finish your game. I doubt either team, fans, or players, or anyone would have wanted a technical foul called. It would probably have been a disruption rather than an improvement to the game. The coach may have been humbled if you had called a T, but he may very well have become angry now and made the rest of the game a hell for you. I think the right thing happened without a T. Just my quarter's worth.
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"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 03:18pm
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Re: Re: Re: Gotta Pin Him
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 03:28pm
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Quote:
__________________
Yom HaShoah
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 03:37pm
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 4 hours? Initially, probably so. But I would think that once the teams begin to learn the rules (which they should already know), the quality of play would improve. I like to see good, clean, skilled basketball game-play (hands up, feet moving, minimal contact). I detest the type of play that is characterized by flailing, slapping, and scrambling...if I wanted to see that I would watch rugby.
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