Coach takes a charge!!!

[jritchie]

Glad my situation in this post could cause such good conversation and get everyone in the Christmas Spirit!!! Everyone have a great weekend and have some good games!!!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Remind to slap Dr. Norman Vincent Peale upside the head next time I see him.

Get in line!!

[Junker]

I'll jump in again too. An earlier post stated that both coaches had been warned about being on the floor. I understand the importance of the timing, but I would call this T. The coach had been warned and now he is so far out on the floor he takes an official out of a play. We are expected to control our emotions when things get heated. This coach was told earlier he needed to get ahold of himself and stay in the coaches box. He chose not to so the T is earned if you ask me. Again, just how I would handle it.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by jebPE
OK, Dan, I'll bite...
(but I would mention that the least you could do is consider my entire post...including the reponse to Jimgolf in which I said I don't have a problem with discretion and advantage/disadvantage).

I don't presume to tell you what your job is other than to enforce the rules.

In this case were are talking about a blatant technical foul. Not intentional, not flagrant, but blatant, nonetheless.

If I were officiating, I would call the technical.

I wouldn't like it (as apparently both coaches had been respectful throughout the game), but I would think that I would have to do it.

Well, my tiny little brain is obviously no match for your lines of reasoning. First you tell me you're OK with discretion and advantage/disadvantage, in the next breath you tell me my job on the court is to enforce the rules, then you tell me the situation we are discussing is a blatant technical foul. I'll admit I'm not the strongest rules guy out there so I went to my rule books and I gotta admit I could not find "blatant technical foul" in there at all. Got a reference?

Anyways, since you're permitting SOME latitude in how I *enforce* the rules, maybe you'll be kind enough to tell me which rules I need to fully enforce & which rules I can fudge on?

As for what you would do if you were an official, I can live with that. Maybe I would T him too. While we're at it let me tell you what I would do if I were the King of Norway. I would make it illegal to fish for sardines on Sunday. In case you were wondering.

[jebPE]

Dan,

It's not your fault you have a tiny little brain; everybody has shortcomings.

I must admit you have me at a bit of a disadvantage as you are an official who has access to the NFHS Rule Book AND an Official's Manual (which I assume is a universally accepted supplement to the Rules and is meant to help the official in his or her use of discretion in enforcing the rules).

I have only read the rules on the NCAA website and the table of differences between NFHS and NCAA.

I would further assume that the training you go through further helps you in your use of discretion. This is why I said I don't have problem with using discretion.

As to my use of the word "blatant", that was meant only as an adjective, not a specific type of techincal foul. Perhaps you are more comfortable with the word "obvious".

Again, I don't presume to tell you what your job is. As I said earlier, I assume your duties are defined by the Rule Book and the Official's Manual.

As for your last comment, if "if's" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a......

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[Edited by jebPE on Dec 17th, 2004 at 02:30 PM]

[Dan_ref]

And a Merry Christmas to you too jeb!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by jebPE
Dan,

It's not your fault you have a tiny little brain; everybody has shortcomings.

Shortcomings? Shortcomings, you say?

It's bad enough that you had to go after poor Dan. But to go after Chuck too?

PS- you did get the brain size right though, if it's any consolation.

[scyguy]

oh this banter, isn't it refreshing ..... Now, class did we learn anything??

Oh yea, we learned the use of words like @ss and sh!t. Oh yea, and it was presented in an unpleasant way. Two valuable lessons for making ourselves better officials.
Now, if we could refrain from beating our chests then we could have some real constructive dialogue.

However, upon further review, I am not sure this is possible. Whether it is an instinctual or learned behavior, some humans persist at destructive dialogue. Since I do not have a PhD in psychology, I do not pretend to know why. My satisfaction comes from the knowledge that I am not a member of this school of thought. Constructive and yes pleasant dialogue provides a comfortable self awareness.

Oh by the way, I get emotional watching "heart-warming" movies too.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by scyguy
oh this banter, isn't it refreshing ..... Now, class did we learn anything??

Oh yea, we learned the use of words like @ss and sh!t. Oh yea, and it was presented in an unpleasant way. Two valuable lessons for making ourselves better officials.
Now, if we could refrain from beating our chests then we could have some real constructive dialogue.

However, upon further review, I am not sure this is possible. Whether it is an instinctual or learned behavior, some humans persist at destructive dialogue. Since I do not have a PhD in psychology, I do not pretend to know why. My satisfaction comes from the knowledge that I am not a member of this school of thought. Constructive and yes pleasant dialogue provides a comfortable self awareness.

Oh by the way, I get emotional watching "heart-warming" movies too.

My, my. You sure are a humorless l'il fella, aren't you? Or is it maybe that you're not used to being disagreed with, being a "teacher"?

I got a refreshing idea that you might want to try. Ignore us. Or go away. Both are acceptable.

[Dan_ref]

Hey scyguy, I think a weepy and upset 12 year old girl (maybe she just broke up with her bf?) might have stolen your password and has taken to posting under your name.

If not then you need to install a sense of humor upgrade, OK kid?

[scyguy]

hey, thanks for calling me kid, makes me feel young. My comments have nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing. It is in the manner in which those ideas are expressed. I fail to see the difficulty in this thought.

It is not about humor. Where did that come from?? I am not just addressing you, I am commenting on all the destructive dialogue I always see on this forum. WHY is it necessary? Answer that question. Why is it necessary?

Reflect a moment and try to explain to me why a response has to be destructive instead of constructive.

P.S. joke about the little girl was a bit humorous.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by scyguy
My comments have nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing. It is in the manner in which those ideas are expressed. I fail to see the difficulty in this thought.

Bull. You've been pouting like a little kid since you got told you were wrong. Now go away and sit in a corner until you grow up. And that's not being "destructive" or "constructive" either. It's being "instructive".

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by scyguy
...I am commenting on all the destructive dialogue I always see on this forum. WHY is it necessary? Answer that question. Why is it necessary?

Reflect a moment and try to explain to me why a response has to be destructive instead of constructive.

Maybe because down deep we all just hate each other's f'ing guts? I mean in a constructive way of course.

[jebPE]

scyguy,

I like to think of it as "reaching a consensus" through civilized debate...no one is in anyone's face, no one is threatening anyone...we are all just sitting at a computer and sharing our thoughts.

I have found that a civilized debate works wonders for one's logical and deductive reasoning skills, which ultimately should make you a better official, as you would be able to better defend yourself if necessary (likewise, should anyone resort to invective, your patience is fortified if you refrain from reciprocating with more invective).

I concede that I am not an official, and do not have the benefit of y'all's training.

Dan, well, he has a tiny little brain, so you shouldn't expect much from him.
(no offense intended Dan...I'm just in a giggin' mood today)

Personally, I think that reading and writing on this board will help me become a better spectator...heck, I'm even considering the notion of becoming an official myself.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by jebPE


Dan, well, he has a tiny little brain, so you shouldn't expect much from him.

Now that wasn't very constructive, was it?

I think I'm gonna go sit in the corner and pout for a while.

Move over scguy.