Violation or not?

[Tom M.]

A1 attempts to inbound the ball on the baseline. While in the process of doing so A1 leans forward and loses his balance. A1 while holding the ball with both hands touches the ball to the floor inbounds in order to regain his balance and to avoid falling forward. A1's feet do not cross the endline. Violation or not?

[Grail]

I say "Violation". A1 is the first to touch the ball inbounds (and out of bounds), before another player.

[mick]

Originally posted by Tom M.
A1 attempts to inbound the ball on the baseline. While in the process of doing so A1 leans forward and loses his balance. A1 while holding the ball with both hands touches the ball to the floor inbounds in order to regain his balance and to avoid falling forward. A1's feet do not cross the endline. Violation or not?

Tom M.,
No violation.
The player did not carry the ball onto the court. (9-2-5)
The player was out of bounds and the ball location remained out of bounds.(4-4-4)
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick

Tom M.,
No violation.
The player did not carry the ball onto the court. (9-2-5)
The player was out of bounds and the ball location remained out of bounds.(4-4-4)
mick

How about R9-2-6, mick? Didn't the thrower touch the ball in the court before it touched or was touched by another player?

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

How about R9-2-6, mick? Didn't the thrower touch the ball in the court before it touched or was touched by another player?

JR,
The ball was in the player's hands not in the court, because the ball was never released. The ball was touching the player who is out of bounds, thus the ball remained out of bounds 4-4-4.
mick

[Ref in PA]

Originally posted by mick

JR,
The ball was in the player's hands not in the court, because the ball was never released. The ball was touching the player who is out of bounds, thus the ball remained out of bounds 4-4-4.
mick

Yet, by the same rule quote you could argue that the thrower is touching ib at the same time touching oob. I realize that is a stretch. But, if that is the case, then the play would be no different than stepping over the oob line.

I would call a violation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick

JR,
The ball was in the player's hands not in the court, because the ball was never released. The ball was touching the player who is out of bounds, thus the ball remained out of bounds 4-4-4.
mick

Mick, see R9-2-11NOTE- "The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she does not touch the in-bounds area before the ball is released on a throw-in pass. The opponent in this case may legally touch or grasp the ball". If the ball remains OOB, how can a defender legally grab the ball? Didn't the player touch an in-bounds area->the ball on the floor in-bounds? Also see R7-1-2(a)-"The ball is out of bounds when it touches a player who is out of bounds". Re:4-4-4--> the ball touched the court in-bounds. It was "in the court".

[mick]

Originally posted by Ref in PA

Yet, by the same rule quote you could argue that the thrower is touching ib at the same time touching oob. I realize that is a stretch. But, if that is the case, then the play would be no different than stepping over the oob line.

I would call a violation.

Using 4-15-4 (Note3) where a dribbler is not dribbling when he touched the ball to the court once or more than once, I find it to be an easy extension to judge the throw-in player and the ball to be out of bounds because the ball was continually held.

No, for me, the ball is in the hands of a player out of bounds until the ball is released or until the player is in bounds.

Still, I have no violation.
mick

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Mick, see R9-2-11NOTE- "The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she does not touch the in-bounds area before the ball is released on a throw-in pass. The opponent in this case may legally touch or grasp the ball". If the ball remains OOB, how can a defender legally grab the ball? Didn't the player touch an in-bounds area->the ball on the floor in-bounds? Also see R7-1-2(a)-"The ball is out of bounds when it touches a player who is out of bounds". Re:4-4-4--> the ball touched the court in-bounds. It was "in the court".

With respect to R9-2-11NOTE, where the ball penetrates the throw-in boundary, we agree that the defender may grab, touch the ball without penalty if the ball is in the air through the plane. If that ball is not touched, the ball is still out of bounds. Why? ...Because the player with the ball is out of bounds.

With the ball on the floor and the throw-in player not touching inbounds, it is my contention that the ball, not released remains out of bounds.

This interpretation is no different from a player having fallen out of bounds trapping/pinning a ball still on the floor inbounds. That player out of bounds has caused the ball to also be out of bounds.

The secured ball location is directly related to the location of the securing player's location.
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick
[/B]

This interpretation is no different from a player having fallen out of bounds trapping/pinning a ball still on the floor inbounds. That player out of bounds has caused the ball to also be out of bounds.

[/B][/QUOTE]That's what I've been trying to tell ya.

[Robmoz]

Score:

JR ----- 1

Mick --- 0


PA Announcer: "Last minute of play in regulation!"

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

This interpretation is no different from a player having fallen out of bounds trapping/pinning a ball still on the floor inbounds. That player out of bounds has caused the ball to also be out of bounds.

[/B]

That's what I've been trying to tell ya. [/B][/QUOTE]

Really ???
I thought you were sorta trying to sell the unreleased ball as being inbounds.
Hmmm.
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick

That's what I've been trying to tell ya. [/B]

Really ???
I thought you were sorta trying to sell the unreleased ball as being inbounds.
[/B][/QUOTE]Yup, that too. Isn't it if it's touching the floor in-bounds?

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Really ???
I thought you were sorta trying to sell the unreleased ball as being inbounds.
[/B]

Yup, that too. Isn't it if it's touching the floor in-bounds? [/B][/QUOTE]

No.
The location of the secured ball doesn't depend on where it started, it depends upon the location of the player with the ball, until the ball is released.

An out of bounds player trapping a ball on the court is causing the ball to be out of bounds, just like the Throw-in player causes the ball to remain out of bounds eventhough he is trapping the ball on the court.

You seem to want it both ways, but there is no rule for that. Tsk, tsk.
mick

[RookieDude]

Hey guys...

What do you call when, on a throw-in, the player OOB starts to make the throw-in and steps onto the court before he releases the ball?

I've got a violation.

Is this not the same as the player touching the court with the ball while standing OOB?

Violation.