opponent intercepting throw-in pass

[mdray]

I know we've been round & round on this topic before but the sitch came up this weekend in a game. On a designated spot throw-in, the thrower passed the ball "diagonally" to his teammate inbounds. The defender reaches across the throw-in plane and intercepts the pass. Do you have a whistle there? (the defender did not reach across and touch the ball while it was in possession of the thrower and the defender did not reach across the plane until the ball had been released by the thrower).
I had no whistle on the play. But afterwards I was thinking that, if the offense had caught that throw-in pass on the OOB side of the plane, that's a throw-in violation. So if the offense isn't allowed to catch it there, why should the defense be allowed to? And isn't it only a T if the touching by the defense occurs while the ball is in the possesion of the thrower? I can't find a rule/caseplay to answer this.

[Jurassic Referee]

It's a violation on the defender as per Rule 9-2-11--"The opponent(s) of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary-line plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass". In this case, there never was a throw-in pass made; the pass along the endline isn't a throw-in pass and it also isn't illegal until a teammate of the thrower actually touches it. The proper call should be a delay warning.

Or maybe you can rule simultaneous violations, with the thrower's team violating R9-2-12 at the same time that their opponent violated --i.e.-"No teammate of the thrower shall be out of bounds after a designated spot throw-in begins".

No matter what you do, remember that we're behind you 14%.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I think our concensus has been that once the ball is released by the thrower, the opponent can reach across the OOB plane and if possible catch the inbounds pass.

Here is rule 9-2-11
The opponent(s) of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary-line until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.

I think you did it correctly. He who hesitates, often is correct.

[IREFU2]

I totally agree.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Well, there you are. Same rule reference and two different answers. I'm sure one of us is 14% correct... probably me. JR has a way of being on the majority side usually.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I think our concensus has been that once the ball is released by the thrower, the opponent can reach across the OOB plane and if possible catch the inbounds pass.

Here is rule 9-2-11
The opponent(s) of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary-line until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.

Yabut..... does the pass to a teammate along the end line meet the definition of a throw-in pass, as per R7-6-1--"The thrower shall release the ball directly into the court, except as in 7-5-7..." R7-5-7 is what the thrower was trying(illegally) to do- pass the ball along the end line to a teammate(s). If it doesn't meet the definition of a throw-in pass, then the opponent musta violated 9-2-11 by reaching OOB before a throw-in pass was released.

Except for that pesky l'il 9-2-12!

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by mdray
On a designated spot throw-in, the thrower passed the ball "diagonally" to his teammate inbounds. The defender reaches across the throw-in plane and intercepts the pass. Do you have a whistle there?

JR's replies don't seem to be referencing the situation quoted. The ball has been released. No violation. Am I missing something.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Jimgolf

JR's replies don't seem to be referencing the situation quoted. The ball has been released. No violation. Am I missing something.

Yup, I sureasheck am referencing the situation quoted. The ball was released, but it wasn't ever released on a throw-in pass; it doesn't meet the definition of a throw-in pass under R7-6-1. It does, however, meet the definition of an endline pass to a teammate under R7-5-7. If it's not a throw-in pass, then by rule(specifically R9-2-11) the defender can't reach OOB and touch the ball. If he does---->warning and repeat throw-in. Unless, of course, you also penalize the thrower-in's teammate for being illegally OOB during a spot throw-in at the same time, as per R9-2-12, which he certainly was.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 7th, 2004 at 11:20 AM]

[Adam]

JR,
how is this pass illegal, offensively? The teammate is inbounds.

[rwest]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Yabut..... does the pass to a teammate along the end line meet the definition of a throw-in pass, as per R7-6-1--"The thrower shall release the ball directly into the court, except as in 7-5-7..." R7-5-7 is what the thrower was trying(illegally) to do- pass the ball along the end line to a teammate(s). If it doesn't meet the definition of a throw-in pass, then the opponent musta violated 9-2-11 by reaching OOB before a throw-in pass was released.

Except for that pesky l'il 9-2-12!

I don't believe the situation was a pass along the endline. The ball was being passed diagonally. To be passed along the endline would be parallel to the endline. The player he passed the ball to was inbounds at an angle to the thrower. For example, suppose I'm inbounding the ball on the left side of the lane and a team mate of mine cuts to the basket and is in the lane. I pass him the ball diagonally. If the defense catches the ball prior to it crossing the boundary plane, this is legal as long as it is not in my hands at the time.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Yup, I sureasheck am referencing the situation quoted. The ball was released, but it wasn't ever released on a throw-in pass; it doesn't meet the definition of a throw-in pass under R7-6-1.

The play described in the first post in this thread is a "spot throw-in." There's no "end-line pass" involved.

The pass meets all the requirements of 7-6-1.

The play is legal.

[mdray]

My one other question remains -- is there inconsistency in the rules in what the defense is allowed to do in this sitch (for those that are agreeing with my no-call)and what the offense is not allowed to do?? i.e. - catch a throw-in pass while it is on the OOB side of the plane

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by mdray
My one other question remains -- is there inconsistency in the rules in what the defense is allowed to do in this sitch (for those that are agreeing with my no-call)and what the offense is not allowed to do?? i.e. - catch a throw-in pass while it is on the OOB side of the plane

I don't think so. The rules already give the offense an advantage (the defender cannot reach over the plane until the ball is released, and if there is not enough clearance behind the thrower, the defender has to stay back three feet), so this rule somewhat balances the equation. IMHO.

By the way, I'm at a loss as to what throwing the ball "diagonally" inbounds entails. I'm picturing someone throwing the ball cross court, but I fail to see how a defender could intercept such a pass while it is still OOB. Where was the inbounder standing, and where was the target, and where was the defender? Thanks.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

The play described in the first post in this thread is a "spot throw-in." There's no "end-line pass" involved.

The pass meets all the requirements of 7-6-1.

The play is legal.

Dan, pass the popcorn!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

The play described in the first post in this thread is a "spot throw-in." There's no "end-line pass" involved.

The pass meets all the requirements of 7-6-1.

The play is legal.

I read it wrong originally-then made a wrong assumption. You are right. I was wrong.