Should it count?

[IREFU2]

The first post said that the R blew his whistle because of a discrepancy at the table. I.E. an Officials Time out. The ball is in fact dead until a whistle is blown to but the ball back in play.

[cmathews]

Originally posted by IREFU2
The first post said that the R blew his whistle because of a discrepancy at the table. I.E. an Officials Time out. The ball is in fact dead until a whistle is blown to but the ball back in play.

No, whistles do not make the ball live, there are very set ways for the ball to become live they are listed in 6-1-1&2...and there is nothing about a whistle there

[ronny mulkey]

joe,

Do you see the difference bewtween the interp play and this original sitch?

interp has R not ready but the 2 officials make the ball live and shots were taken.

this sitch has official not ready but the 2 officials make the ball live but they kill the play BEFORE shots were taken.

there could be numerous reasons to kill a foul shot before it is taken and one of them would be if i realized by partner was elbows and *sshole deep into the Table. If I don't kill it then we'll live with the shots.

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by cmathews

No, whistles do not make the ball live, there are very set ways for the ball to become live they are listed in 6-1-1&2...and there is nothing about a whistle there

Exactly! The ball became live once the administering official placed the ball at the disposal of the free thrower.

My question is, in the original post, the whistle was blown before the release of the free thrower.

Ball was then dead. Start over once the smoke cleared.

[FrankHtown]

I think we are confusing the "ball becoming live" and a ball ready for play. If ONE official calls time, for what ever reason, play has to stop. If one official is not ready, you shouldn't proceed. I re-ask my question from earlier....If I was the R at the table, and the free throws were administered, and the player missed, and I turn around and here come players down the court, I would have blown my whistle, said I was not ready for play, have them re-line up and shoot the 1 and 1.

If the U in two person is talking to the table, and the R tosses the ball anyway, do you proceed with play? I hope not. I would hope U would tell R, we were not ready to start, and retoss.

If one baseball umpire out of 4 on the field calls time out, for whatever reason, time is out. They don't say 3 out of 4 didn't call time out, so we're going to proceed.

[cmathews]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
I think we are confusing the "ball becoming live" and a ball ready for play. If ONE official calls time, for what ever reason, play has to stop. If one official is not ready, you shouldn't proceed. I re-ask my question from earlier....If I was the R at the table, and the free throws were administered, and the player missed, and I turn around and here come players down the court, I would have blown my whistle, said I was not ready for play, have them re-line up and shoot the 1 and 1.

If the U in two person is talking to the table, and the R tosses the ball anyway, do you proceed with play? I hope not. I would hope U would tell R, we were not ready to start, and retoss.

If one baseball umpire out of 4 on the field calls time out, for whatever reason, time is out. They don't say 3 out of 4 didn't call time out, so we're going to proceed.

FrankHtown, no one is disputing that it shouldn't have been administered...and if the U blew it dead before the release I think it should be re administered...As for turning around and seeing the players come up court, what rule would you use to justify re administering the 1 and 1 ? Oh and good luck explaining it to the coach LOL...and we don't play by baseball rules, you can't compare the two...if I put the ball in play as a basketball official, and my partner isn't ready, that is my fault, my mistake and there is usually very little that can be done, we just continue and go on...

[FrankHtown]

I have no trouble explaining to the coach or anybody "I was not ready. I was taking care of table issues, and the the ball was improperly put into play. We're going back to the free-throw line."

As for a partner putting the ball into play, I'm sure everyone here at one time or another has blown the whistle to stop play while a throw in was in progress to let a player get off the floor for a substitution, rather than call a T for 6 or more on the court. Maybe your co-official didn't see your hand up while the substitution was taking place, but I would guess you did not call a technical, even though the ball was live. THAT is one to explain to a coach. "Coach, I gave your team a technical, cause my partner put the ball in play, while you still had a player leaving the court. Sorry, but you had 6 on the court when the ball became live."

[cmathews]

nope I have blown whistles and stopped play before...but the administration of a free throw while I am at the table is different than the players on the court thing. If I am at the table and my partner puts the ball in play, while my back is turned, I am not going to blow it dead in the middle and have a do over.... If they are headed up court after a free throw was administered while I was at the table...I may blow it dead to finish the business at the table, but we will start from where we interupted the game not from the re administration of a free throw.... Where in the rules would I find a rule that allows me to do that??

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Here is my take on this situation. I like the NCAA A.R. and dislike the NFHS Casebook Play Ruling. In the play we are discussing the R tell his partners, that there is a problem at the Table and that the problem has to be fixed before the game can continue. What part of those instructions do his partners not understand? The R has said that the game will not continue until the problem at the Table has been fixed, and no matter what his two bonehead partners do after his decision cannot override the R's decision to stop the game.

MTD, Sr.

[ronny mulkey]

Mark,

I think that this sitch had evolved into a discussion of the Fed interp verses the NCAA interp, but neither applies to this original situation. The lead bounced the ball to the shooter, making it live, but the C blew it dead before the shot was taken.

It almost makes you want to gather the ball and take it with you to the table if you think there might be a possibility that it could be put back in play before you are ready. But, if it happens in my high school game, we are NOT going to have a do over.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Mark,

I think that this sitch had evolved into a discussion of the Fed interp verses the NCAA interp, but neither applies to this original situation. The lead bounced the ball to the shooter, making it live, but the C blew it dead before the shot was taken.

It almost makes you want to gather the ball and take it with you to the table if you think there might be a possibility that it could be put back in play before you are ready. But, if it happens in my high school game, we are NOT going to have a do over.

I understand what you are saying and I will follow the rules of the game (NFHS or NCAA), but it just galls me that there were members of the officiating team that did not have their heads screwed on correctly, so as to allow something like this to happen.

MTD, Sr.