Who was that foul on

tjchamp · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 03, 2004, 10:00am

This happened at a game last night. Official comes to table and says "Green 51" and indicates the type of foul, and 2 shots. Green coach stands up and asks who the foul was on, and ref repeats green 51. Coach says, I don't have a 51, and sure enough he doesn't. Now the refs are in a pickle cuz they really don't know/remember who the foul was on. So, they picked a girl that was no wheres close to the play. What should have been done in that situation?

zebraman · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 03, 2004, 10:12am

Quote:

Originally posted by tjchamp
This happened at a game last night. Official comes to table and says "Green 51" and indicates the type of foul, and 2 shots. Green coach stands up and asks who the foul was on, and ref repeats green 51. Coach says, I don't have a 51, and sure enough he doesn't. Now the refs are in a pickle cuz they really don't know/remember who the foul was on. So, they picked a girl that was no wheres close to the play. What should have been done in that situation?

Remember that the personnel at the scorer's table are part of your crew. Ask them if they saw who the foul was on. Don't guess, that isn't fair to the girl who is charged with the foul. One nice thing about reffing a girls game is how polite they are. I screwed up once and forgot the number of the fouler. I turned around and a girl could see that I was looking for the fouler. She came up and said, "Mr. Referee, I'm the one that fouled."

Z

DJ · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 03, 2004, 10:14am

Well, you may be able to get help from your partner, you may be able to get help from the bench personal or you may be able to ask the players or you may be up the creek without a ..... Can"t say this has ever happened to me. Just kidding but now I can plead Alzheimers because I'm over 50!! Whenever I have a senior moment I hope my partner is there when I need him and I hope I can return the favor. He really should try to keep track of the the person who fouled and who may be shooting to the best of his ability. That is when you find out who the good partners are and who you want as your wing man when the going gets tough. Some people are always there and others leave a little to be desired. Some will even let you hang because they are self serving in their agenda. None of my partners in the last category.

[Edited by DJ on Dec 3rd, 2004 at 10:17 AM]

jdccpa · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 06, 2004, 01:44pm

Proper mechanics is to call the color and the number at the scene of the foul (and loud enough for all the hear).....
This should elminate any brain farts when you get to the table.

ChrisSportsFan · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 06, 2004, 08:02pm

You never know where your help will come from.
This past Tue, 2 man BV, visiting team is down by 9 in the 1st Q, I'm lead in transition and had to button hook. A1 attempted to pass to A2 and all I saw was ball go OOB, but I wasn't sure if it was tipped. I raised my hand and hit the whistle but didn't signal a direction hoping the players would take off one way or the other to indicate but no, they all stopped and looked at me. I took a quick glance at my partner and he had no clue as he shouldn't have. I was just about to go to the AP and the visiting coach say's; "it's white's ball". "Thanks Coach".

Nevadaref · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 08, 2004, 09:13am

Let's say that no one says anything for about another 30 seconds of play. The coach then questions who the foul was charged to. The official believes that he may have reported the wrong number. What rule would you guys use to justify changing the foul? Maybe 2-11-11?

Junker · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 08, 2004, 09:35am

I had this situation last night. I had an off ball foul in the post (2 man). I always announce the foul to my partner before I report (color, number, foul type) and point to the spot for the throw in. On my way to report, a player that was waiting to sub, runs onto the floor before I report the foul. I track him down and send him back to the bench, but I lost my train of though as far as the foul I had just called. I looked back at the players and took an educated guess, size, position, etc. and reported. Either I got it right, no one noticed who the foul was on because it was in the post, or no one cared because it was a blowout, but we continued with no problems. I hate it when I lose my train of thought like that.

Kelvin green · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 08, 2004, 10:53am

I know one trick that has been used, is use your captains as well.

I know of officials who will get the captain and say that I lost the number, help me and with getting the right number or I will give it to you.

cford · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 08, 2004, 11:29am

Usually the only time I will lose the player that fouled (or the shooter) is when there is a double whistle. I then take my eyes off the players, check my partners and give it to the one that the play originated in. If I'm lead (3 person) and the play came from T's primary and we call a foul I will usually give it to T, but if he then points back to me I will probably have lost the players by then.

This is something that I'm going to try and work on.

rainmaker · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tjchamp
This happened at a game last night. Official comes to table and says "Green 51" and indicates the type of foul, and 2 shots. Green coach stands up and asks who the foul was on, and ref repeats green 51. Coach says, I don't have a 51, and sure enough he doesn't. Now the refs are in a pickle cuz they really don't know/remember who the foul was on. So, they picked a girl that was no wheres close to the play. What should have been done in that situation?

Ask the table, ask a friend who's watching, ask the girl who took the foul, look for a number that might have been mistaken for 51 (such as 54, or 31, or even 15), dig through your memory bank for any distinguishing feature. If worse comes to worse, I think you might get away with charging a team foul that doesn't go against an individual. The reason I have lots of ammunition for this battle is that I fight it a lot.

gordon30307 · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 08, 2004, 03:20pm

Ask your partner who fouled. If he/she doesn't know ask the players. If they don't fess up just pick one out. I have found ususlly the one who fouled will come forward or he/she will be ratted out.

Mark Dexter · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 08, 2004, 10:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Let's say that no one says anything for about another 30 seconds of play. The coach then questions who the foul was charged to. The official believes that he may have reported the wrong number. What rule would you guys use to justify changing the foul? Maybe 2-11-11?

Yes - 2-11-11 - this is a bookkeeping mistake. No matter who we say committed the foul, only one player actually did (especially in this case where we know green 51 couldn't have done it!)

NCAA has the same rule - correct a bookkeeping mistake before approving the final score (2-11.12) - and I've had a few games where an official will report a foul on one player, and then come back over to the table at the next media timeout and say it was really on a different player. Change the book, move on, and hope it's not the player's 5th.