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Wed Dec 01, 2004, 10:02am
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I found out in the fourth quarter of yesterday's game that neither scorekeeper had been keeping team fouls. The clock operator had been keeping them reliably on the board during the first half, but was unable to reset them for the second half (it was the first time he'd ever run the clock). We got out of it okay by huddling up with the coaches and agreeing on a solution.
But my question is, what do you do to keep track of team fouls? Yesterday's insanity aside, it's next on my list of things to work on.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming 
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Wed Dec 01, 2004, 10:10am
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I'm sure most will come in with this, but maybe I'll be first. Make sure you talk to your scorers and give them instructions if they need them. I find that especially at the lower levels, you get pretty much whomever will do it, so take a second and let them know what you need from them. Aside from that, I'm not a "numbers" person (I'm more of a history guy) so as far as remembering on your own, I don't really. I'll be interested to see some of the other replies though.
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Wed Dec 01, 2004, 10:15am
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Ditto what Junker said. Stress it with the scorer; don't try to remember on your own.
The only thing I'll add is that you ask the scorer once in a while: "How many team fouls is that?" If he knows, then you get a refresher on how close you are to the bonus. If he doesn't know, then you can fix the problem quicker.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Wed Dec 01, 2004, 10:26am
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Good lesson learned. Even if you think you can keep track on your own, you would often find that you missed one.
At the start of each contest I make it a point to chat with the scorekeeper and clock operator briefly on the following:[list][*]Official verification and signing of the book[*]Thank them for their time and inquire about their familiarity with the clock/book[*]Request that they notify the officials upon the 6th and 9th team fouls[*]Encourage them to ask for help when any doubts arise about ANYTHING
__________________
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done." Chris Z. Detroit/SE Michigan 
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Wed Dec 01, 2004, 10:44am
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I really want to know which schools???
You should always have some pregame with the table. I generally mention -running score before individual score, -Team fouls and player -Notifying us -Dont buzz in the middle of a fast break -Start and stopping -stop at 10 team fouls on board I cant believe that both books did not keep track of Team fouls... I usually glance at the book at the end of the first half when we verify scores that there is no problem... You could ask at the quarters if score and fouls match. You should have an idea of how many fouls were committed... (personal fouls) and you had a good idea of 1st half fouls, you should be able to come to a reasonable guess.
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Wed Dec 01, 2004, 11:07am
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Kelvin,
I had Lehi at Wasatch Jr., Freshman boys. Thanks everybody for the ideas. I had never given much thought to pre-gaming with the score table people.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
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Thu Dec 02, 2004, 09:44am
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Roar for Orem High!
Quote:
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
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Thu Dec 02, 2004, 09:49am
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Last night I put in to practice these excellent suggestions. We had a good two minute pre-game with the table. The game went off without a hitch despite having another new timekeeper.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
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Thu Dec 02, 2004, 12:47pm
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Ray, the best I can do for keeping track of team fouls, is to check the board after every foul and make sure it's one more than last time. If you ask me to tell the fouls without looking, I can't, but when the next one happens, the old number pops up in my memory and I know if one was added. If I think there's a problem, I'll go to the table and ask. If I'm wrong, no big, but if I'm right, I get credit for saving the day. Works for me.
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Thu Dec 02, 2004, 01:40pm
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Quote:
__________________
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
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Thu Dec 02, 2004, 02:02pm
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Quote:
Different coaches or different day and it may have been a very different result.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
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Thu Dec 02, 2004, 03:06pm
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Nicely done! Gives me an idea on how to handle such a situation if I ever come across one. Thx!
__________________
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
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Fri Dec 03, 2004, 04:59am
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Re: Roar for Orem High!
Quote:
4A is our largest classification. I know Utah has 5A. What is Orem classified? I'd guess 4A. While they played very hard and fundamentally sound basketball, they didn't have much size. Of course, neither does Galena, which is coached in a very similar style. Hence the good match-up. What Galena does have is the best player in northern nevada, perhaps the whole state (there are a couple of kids in Vegas who may be better). He scored 19 points. Here is the clip from the paper: "OREM (Utah) 52, GALENA 43 at Galena: Derek Lorenzen hit three 3-pointers and scored a team-high 19 points but it was not enough as the Grizzlies lost their season opener. Luke Babbitt and Chad Sidenstricker added nine points each for Galena (0-1). Tanner Lamb led all scorers with 21 points for Orem (1-0), while Chad Cusicke scored 15 and Blake Johnson added 10." After having Lone Peak last year, Brighton and Bingham during the summer, and now Orem, I feel that I should be an honorary member of the Utah officials association.
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