Titke IX supreme court case

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ShadowStripes
If a coach points out that he or she is being relegated to second class facilities, common sense justice (which, unfortunately, fails to exist in most cases these days) from my athletic director's office would dictate the following: Whoever draws the higher attendance and higher concession sales during the season gets first crack at the bigger gym for practice.

The fact that this is clearly illegal wouldn't matter to you?

[zebraman]

Originally posted by ShadowStripes
If a coach points out that he or she is being relegated to second class facilities, common sense justice (which, unfortunately, fails to exist in most cases these days) from my athletic director's office would dictate the following: Whoever draws the higher attendance and higher concession sales during the season gets first crack at the bigger gym for practice.

That doesn't wash at the high school level and it certainly isn't justice. Female athletes deserve the same amenities as male athletes. This isn't Taliban controlled Afghanistan is it?

One of the main reasons I also officiate girls basketball is that I think they deserve the same quality officials as boys basketball. I strive to make just as many awful calls in girls games as I do in the boys games.

Z

[gsf23]

I would like to know exactly why this coach was fired. If he was fired just because he was complaining and raising a ruckus, I think that would just fall under wrongful termination and I don't see how Title IX comes into play there. Has the school even been found guilty of a Title IX violation yet? A Title IX violation didn't cause his firing, he was fired for complaining about the facilities.

Now, if he was fired because he wasn't doing a good job as a coach, then I could see how suing under Title IX could work if he argued that being forced to coach in inadequate facilites, as compared to the boys, affected his success as a coach.

Now, I do think that the school should be punished for what appears to be a clear Title IX violation, but I just don't see how the coach can get compensation from that.

[bgtg19]

Originally posted by gsf23
I would like to know exactly why this coach was fired. If he was fired just because he was complaining and raising a ruckus, I think that would just fall under wrongful termination and I don't see how Title IX comes into play there. Has the school even been found guilty of a Title IX violation yet? A Title IX violation didn't cause his firing, he was fired for complaining about the facilities.

Now, if he was fired because he wasn't doing a good job as a coach, then I could see how suing under Title IX could work if he argued that being forced to coach in inadequate facilites, as compared to the boys, affected his success as a coach.

Now, I do think that the school should be punished for what appears to be a clear Title IX violation, but I just don't see how the coach can get compensation from that.

gsf23, you stated that if the coach was fired because he was complaining about illegal treatment of the girls, you would think that it would "just fall under wrongful conviction." In most states, employment is "at will," which means that a person can be fired for any reason, or no reason, as long as it is not an unlawful reason. I assume that the coach did not work in a state with a whistleblower statute and, if that is true, the only potential claim he could make is under Title IX for retaliation. As I understand it, that is what the litigation is all about: Does Title IX provide complainers from retaliation? I hope that helps.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BushRef

I've got a better idea. How bout the boys practice in the bigger gym on days that end in Y, and girls can have it on the days that end in the other 25 letters of the alphabet.

I'm sorry, Bush-O, but I don't find this amusing, even with a smiley at the end. I hope there are lots of others out there who feel as I do, but just won't speak up. Suppose, just for a moment, that the girls team was nationally ranked, went on a travelling tour over Christmas break every year, and won the state tournament 10 of the last 13 years (we have such a team here in the Portland area). Imagine that the girls' team really did get the good gym all the time. Remember, we're not talking about a club here, this is a public high school. Imagine you are the father of a boy on the team, who has to practice in a gym with a warped floor, and bent rims, day after day, week after week, month after month.

Now pretend that you go to the AD and complain, and say you pay your taxes too, and your child deserves to have the good gym at least a day or two a week. So here's the AD listening patiently, notimg some things on paper, and then he says, "Okay, tell you what, we'll let your kids have the gym all the days that don't end in the letter Y. How's that sound?" And then he smiles in a funny way and says, "Just kidding! Ha, ha, that's a good one isn't it? Days that end in Y, get it?" I hope you would go to the principal and complain about this jerk.

There are some things that just don't bear much joking.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Suppose, just for a moment, that the girls team was nationally ranked, went on a travelling tour over Christmas break every year, and won the state tournament 10 of the last 13 years (we have such a team here in the Portland area).

Juulie - apparently getting the "good gym" hasn't done them any good this year, since they're not even ranked in our state.

That's too bad, since their performance brings a lot of pride to the entire area - especially since, as you stated, they've accomplished this at a public school.

[gsf23]

Originally posted by bgtg19


gsf23, you stated that if the coach was fired because he was complaining about illegal treatment of the girls, you would think that it would "just fall under wrongful conviction." In most states, employment is "at will," which means that a person can be fired for any reason, or no reason, as long as it is not an unlawful reason. I assume that the coach did not work in a state with a whistleblower statute and, if that is true, the only potential claim he could make is under Title IX for retaliation. As I understand it, that is what the litigation is all about: Does Title IX provide complainers from retaliation? I hope that helps.

I understand that part, I guess I just don't see how the connection can be made from Title IX to the firing of the coach.

Like I had said, the only way I could see a connection would be if he was fired for being an inadequate coach, the he could claim the unequel facilities were a factor in that.

But, I guess that is why we have judges.

[bgtg19]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I'm sorry, Bush-O, but I don't find this amusing, even with a smiley at the end. I hope there are lots of others out there who feel as I do, but just won't speak up.

There are some things that just don't bear much joking.

I agree, rainmaker, that Bushref's "joke" wasn't amusing. I hope we never get to the point where too much of life is "off limits" for humor, so I feel conflicted about coming down on someone for attempting it, even unsuccessfully. The problem is, as you have intimated, that the jokes about girl's/women's sports being less "worthy" contribute to the second class status that often confronts female athletics. It may be true that the boys teams generate more gate and concessions receipts, but the role of an educational entity is to educate. Girls and boys teams deserve equal treatment because girls and boys each deserve the opportunity to be the best that they can be.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by bgtg19

I agree, rainmaker, that Bushref's "joke" wasn't amusing. I hope we never get to the point where too much of life is "off limits" for humor, so I feel conflicted about coming down on someone for attempting it, even unsuccessfully. The problem is, as you have intimated, that the jokes about girl's/women's sports being less "worthy" contribute to the second class status that often confronts female athletics.

This is very well stated, and I think you make a very good point about too much of life been off limits for humor. I think what's off limits isn't the thought itself, but who said it and about whom and to whom. If he had said, "Give the girls all the days that end in Y and the boys the other 25 letters" it would have been funny, because everyone would know he was just being silly and that there was no intent behind it. The way he said it feels like someone who's trying to make an offensive attitude acceptable by couching it in flippant word play.

It may be that BushRef himself doesn't feel this way at all. In that case I think he needs to acknowledge that this can be an emotional subject, and he'd be better off to keep the humor to himself.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BushRef
Juulie--

If you're offended by my joke, which at least you recognize as such, then so be it. I have never been known to be very politically correct, and never will be. I am a person that finds humor in everything, no matter who it is about. Hell, I had a sister die in a car accident, and was crackin some good jokes about all that and about how some of my family members handle the greiving process shortly after her burial.

To shorten this up a little bit, the apology you were hoping for is not forthcoming.

Apology I was hoping for? I learned a long time ago that people who "find humor in everything" have the sensitivity of sandpaper, and usually "can't see what all the fuss is about." I wasn't expecting an apology, or even asking for one. It's too bad, though, that you think this is a good way to go through life. Being aware and concerned about the feelings and dignity of others is a good feeling, and makes for some deep and abiding pleasure that cheap humor can never bring. You're missing a great game, ref!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BushRef

Get a life.

25 years of marriage, 4 living kids, 6 dead kids, 1 grandkid, two parents, three siblings, two step-parents, two parents-in-law, 8 other in-laws living, 25 step-relatives, 1 church elders committee, 1 part time job administrating a non-profit, 4-6 basketball games a week, 7 chronic illnesses to manage (my own plus others'), two cars, a house, a mortgage, college and private school bills, one snake, one dog, one cat, and a very strange next-door neighbor.

So, what am I missing here?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

25 years of marriage, 4 living kids, 6 dead kids, 1 grandkid, two parents, three siblings, two step-parents, two parents-in-law, 8 other in-laws living, 25 step-relatives, 1 church elders committee, 1 part time job administrating a non-profit, 4-6 basketball games a week, 7 chronic illnesses to manage (my own plus others'), two cars, a house, a mortgage, college and private school bills, one snake, one dog, one cat, and a very strange next-door neighbor.

So, what am I missing here?

Partridge in a pear tree?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Partridge in a pear tree?

Doggone it, you're right. Do you know anyone who sells them?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Doggone it, you're right. Do you know anyone who sells them?

No, but I hear JR's got a video I would pay $$$ to see.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref


[/B]

No, but I hear JR's got a video I would pay $$$ to see. [/B][/QUOTE]Got a snake in it too.