Weird Scorebook Problem

[rainmaker]

Middle of the third quarter, my partner calls a foul, reports it, the table says, "5 fouls" I was a little surprised, as this girl hadn't played a whole lot, and she hadn't been much involved in the action. My surprise was appropriate, since she was surprised too, and burst into tears. The coach instantly protested, and my partner quickly stepped to the table and began examining the book. Almost nothing matched, it was just awful. Finally, we figured out that the book person had been putting fouls on this poor girl (whose number was 14) when they should have been on 41. The screwy part about the whole thing was that the 41 who should have had these fouls was on the other team. Still, after about 10 minutes, my partner and I agreed that this was probably right. So we "adjusted" the books (butchered would probably be a better word) and got on with the game.

My question is, what changes were within our rights, and what changes were not? I figured that this fell under the bookkeeping rules section, and not a correctable error, since we had probably reported it correctly, but it had been recorded wrong. But how far are we allowed to go in the matter of changing the book?

Incidentally, in this game we had trouble with the control panel for the clock--scoreboard. The clock would black out and then when we got it back on, it was running ELAPSED time instead of REMAINING time. The third time, we just reset it and used elapsed time since the process of "fixing" it took too long.

[mick]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Middle of the third quarter, my partner calls a foul, reports it, the table says, "5 fouls" I was a little surprised, as this girl hadn't played a whole lot, and she hadn't been much involved in the action. My surprise was appropriate, since she was surprised too, and burst into tears. The coach instantly protested, and my partner quickly stepped to the table and began examining the book. Almost nothing matched, it was just awful. Finally, we figured out that the book person had been putting fouls on this poor girl (whose number was 14) when they should have been on 41. The screwy part about the whole thing was that the 41 who should have had these fouls was on the other team. Still, after about 10 minutes, my partner and I agreed that this was probably right. So we "adjusted" the books (butchered would probably be a better word) and got on with the game.

My question is, what changes were within our rights, and what changes were not? I figured that this fell under the bookkeeping rules section, and not a correctable error, since we had probably reported it correctly, but it had been recorded wrong. But how far are we allowed to go in the matter of changing the book?

Incidentally, in this game we had trouble with the control panel for the clock--scoreboard. The clock would black out and then when we got it back on, it was running ELAPSED time instead of REMAINING time. The third time, we just reset it and used elapsed time since the process of "fixing" it took too long.

Jewel,
This transposition happens sometimes when officials use two hands to report a number to the table.
I think making the book right is fine, unless it becomes uncomfortably tedious. It is a shame that it happens and it is a reflection on the Site administrators.
Last night we had a three minute pause in the action because the "Scoreboard" showed #11 had fouled and there was no #11 on either team. I mean, "big deal", who cares what the scoreboard shows? One team wanted an administrative technical, when all it turned out to be was the timer pressing the wroong button.
mick

[Brian Watson]

If you know the book is wrong, and you reported it right, I would say you are well within your bounds to adjust the book, up to what you know for sure. Don't guess on anything.

I don't know what level or how old the scorer was, but some latitude needs to be taken at the lower level.

That and never go back.

[OPTIPLEX2001]

I don't know what level or how old the scorer was, but some latitude needs to be taken at the lower level.

I'm 13 years old, and I'm bookkeeping high school varsity. I am just as skilled, if not more so, then some others. Also, I would like to point out, I never asked to do the scoreboard/book. I was asked.

Matthew

[Richard Ogg]

Originally posted by OPTIPLEX2001

I'm 13 years old, and I'm bookkeeping high school varsity. I am just as skilled, if not more so, then some others....
Matthew

Matthew, I'm glad to see you stick up for your competency and in a rather polite manner. While I didn't make the statement you're objecting to, I read it differently than I think you did.

As a ref I don't worry (too much) about the age of people at the table. I recognize that, if at all possible, there are competent people doing varsity games. The statement "at the lower level" refers to the level of the game. If I'm doing a Junior High game, there may be a very mature adult at the table, but there is a good chance they have no clue what to do, especially with unusual situations. Same is true for a Frosh game, and maybe a JV game.

I perceive you take pride in your work. GREAT!! Stay with it and maybe someday we'll see you court-side for the NBA games.

[Hawks Coach]

Richard, I think that Matthew read the "how old the scorer was" comment and the lower level game comment and assumed, as did I, that the implication was that the younger scorers you frequently have in lower level games do not always do an adequate job. We actually have our middle school girls AAU teams keep the book and they do better than most parents usually do because they understand the game and their job.

I'm a big fan of early invovlement in sports officiating, and of youth officials. My son started reffing soccer as a 12 year old and does better than many of the adult refs we had in lower level rec games. He can cover the field and understands the game at a level above many beginning refs. And yes, I am biased in this regard

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by mick
Last night we had a three minute pause in the action because the "Scoreboard" showed #11 had fouled and there was no #11 on either team. I mean, "big deal", who cares what the scoreboard shows? One team wanted an administrative technical, when all it turned out to be was the timer pressing the wroong button.
mick

In a situation like this, I (as timer) would want a T for stupidity charged to the coaches and fans.

Once again, these people just can't get it through their heads that the book is the official record, not the scoreboard.

[Brian Watson]

There are some outstanding young adults who can handle the book better than most adults. However, I think there are a larger portion of them who are "assigned" or rotated into the job at the MS and frosh levels, and they don't put their best foot forward. The game I had two nights ago the book kept talking to people around her and completly ignored us, the guy keeping the clock had to keep elbowing her to get her attention for us.

Then she was ticked when I made all her freinds move to the other side of the gym. It is a good thing there were no problems because I really can't say if the book was tip-top or not.

I assume all of my book peole will be top notch, until they drop the ball. You just hope you can catch it before it causes problems.