Technical freethrows?

[ilya]

In my game yesterday, my teammate got hit w/ a T for saying "Is the ball part of the body?". the other team shot Fts. that's all cool.

now, in OT, we were down by 2 w/ 13 secs left. My teammate fouls B1 (i'm on team A). he tries a steal, actually, but ends up grabing him on his arm, so that B1 falls on his @ss.
NO CALL! so, B2 gets the ball, sprints down the court, and A2 fouls him hard. Intentinal foul, no cmplains. B2 then yells "Get him the f*ck off me!". T-time! The ref reports the T to the table, and all. He reported it as a Double-Techincal (his hands were crosed above his head; that's a signal for a double-foul right?; besides, he told me that's what it was ). They shoot there intentinal foul freethrows (2 shots), and get he ball back. BUT! WE DIDN"T SHOOT ANY TECHNICALS! their player missed both of his shots, and we could have tied the game if we made both of ours, and there would be about 5 secs left.
Why were't we awarded freethrows?
The coach asked the ref, and he said... "Because it's a double foul!"???? I just didn't get that.


Also, there were so many horrible calls! And one of the problems is that the ref 50 feet away was making the call, not the ref 5 feet away. I asked that ref why wasn't he calling anything, and he said that maybe he was looking somewhere else or just didn't think it was a foul. I don't think that ref made a single call during the game, when he was close to the play.

what do you think about all that?


btw, Mark, that was in HYB. do you know the refs from there? Do you know if they get a lot of complains about their officiating?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The situation that you described is a false double foul. The foul by A1 (intentional personal foul) against B2 was the first foul and the technical foul be B2 was the second foul.

A double personal foul is when two opponents commit pesonal fouls against each other at approximately the same time.

A double personal foul is when two opponents commit technical fouls against each other at approximately the same time.

In both double foul situations no free throw are shot the and the alternation possesion arrow is used to determine who gets the ball for the throw in. This is the application under NFHS (high school rules). Under NCAA (college rules) it is slightly more complicated and I will not address them.

A false double foul is a situation in which there are fouls by both teams, the second which occurs before the clock is started following the first, and at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent.

So you can see, your situation is a false double foul. When a false double foul occurs, the penalties for all of the fouls are carried out and the ball is put into play as if the last foul of the double foul was the only foul that occured.

Therefore, B2 should have shoot two free throws for the intentional personal foul by A1, then anybody from Team A would have shot two free throws for the technical foul by A1 and then Team A would have made a throw in at the division line opposite the scorer's table. In my opinion A1 should have been ejected for using the "f-word" in which case his substitute would have shot the free throws for the intentional personal foul.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ilya
what do you think about all that?

I think you probably missed some details along the way.

First, the arms crossed over the head is an intentional foul, not a double foul.

Second, there could have been a double technical that you weren't aware of. That's just my guess. That's why the ref said it was double foul.

Third, the second official may have been new, possibly in his first year and maybe a little timid. We've all been there.

Fourth, stop worrying about the officiating and stop questioning every play.

You'll enjoy the game more!

[ilya]

sorry if i was wrong about the signal

but he clearly said it was a double foul when reporting it

their player shot 2 frts for intentional, and they did get the ball back (but under the basket for some reason!)

we didn't shoot any, though.
i didn't think it was a double foul evither, but i just said what i saw/heard

the reffs were experienced. one of them (the young guy) started like when he was 15, and now he's in his 20s
the other one is in his 30s-40xs i believe, and has been a ref for quite a while (i asked him that )

thanks for your help guys

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ilya
their player shot 2 frts for intentional, and they did get the ball back (but under the basket for some reason!)

On an intentional foul, the ball is awarded at the spot OOB nearest the spot of the foul, not at the division line like after a technical.

[ilya]

alright, that clears that up.
still, why weren't we awarded 2 freethrows for a technical foul on A1 (the one who said f*ck)

[Mark Padgett]

Ilya - first of all, I don't know any of the refs from the Hillsboro association personally and I would never knock a ref or group of refs without seeing their work in person - and even then, they would have to be absolutely atrocious for me to even say the slightest bit of criticism and I would first discuss it with them and I would have to be asked to do that by them. There, was that sentence long enough for you?

Now, as to your situation. As stated in other posts in this thread, the fouled player should have shot two for the intentional, then anyone on your team should have shot two for the technical, then your team should have received the ball for an inbound at the division line. All free throws should have been shot with the lane cleared.

Since it is a well-know principle in NF rules that all fouls are administered in the order in which they occur, this shouldn't have been misadministered by the officials.

[mcdanrd]

while adult rec leagues may be a great way for a beginning official to get some court time,in my opinion, it is the worst type of ball to call. You get a bunch of ex-jocks who think they are still God's gift to the basketball court. There always seems to be a hot head or two, they don't know or care to learn the rules, and, worst of all, they're not accountable to anyone. The ball is thrown endline to endline because after 5 minutes half of them can't get up and down the court. We have plenty of legitimate ball to call here. I no longer want or have to put up with those self appointed pre-madonnas.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by mcdanrd
while adult rec leagues may be a great way for a beginning official to get some court time,in my opinion, it is the worst type of ball to call. You get a bunch of ex-jocks who think they are still God's gift to the basketball court.

We usually refer to this as "jerkball."