Pre game T

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by MikeCapps
Jump ball between the players unless it was a flagrant double foul. The arrow has not been established during the technical free throws.

Why would it make any difference if the fouls were flagrant or not?

[OldCoachNewRef]

I don't think it would make a difference other than which players would be in the jump circle.

[OldCoachNewRef]

Just got an answer on the ruling from my supervisor:
There would be no jump ball! "The double fouls would offset. (no shots) Resume technical fouls procedures with the shooters team getting the ball @ the division line. The arrow would also be set during the throw in to the inbounding team."

I won't be able to argue his answer unless I get a casebook or official ruling from the rulebook. BktBallRef, can you help on this?

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by OldCoachNewRef
Just got an answer on the ruling from my supervisor:
There would be no jump ball! "The double fouls would offset. (no shots) Resume technical fouls procedures with the shooters team getting the ball @ the division line. The arrow would also be set during the throw in to the inbounding team."

I won't be able to argue his answer unless I get a casebook or official ruling from the rulebook. BktBallRef, can you help on this?

Unfortunately, your supervisor is incorrect. The relevant rules that you need to show him are 4-3-3b, 8-7, Summary of Penalties for All Fouls, 1(c) on pg. 67, and 6-4-3f NOTE.

4-3-3b details how to set the arrow initially. It states that you wait until the ball is at the disposal of the player who will make the throw-in to set the arrow after a noncommon foul (technical, intentional).
8-7 states, "Penalties for fouls are administered in the order in which the fouls occurred."
This means that you need to assess the penalty for the double personal foul after you finish shooting the FTs for the technical foul. You cannot splice the penalty for the double personal foul inbetween the two parts of the penalty for the technical foul (the 2FTs and the awarding of possession). The penalty for the double personal foul supercedes the awarding of possession from the T. The game is now continued by assessing the appropriate penalty for the double personal foul.
1(c) from the Summary of Penalties tells you what that appropriate penalty is. No free throws are awarded for the double personal foul and an AP throw-in results, but 6-4-3f NOTE explains the a jump ball must take place "between the two players involved" if the alternating-possession procedure has not been established when the double personal foul occurred.

To sum up, the initial arrow is not set yet at the time of the double personal because the first foul was a noncommon foul and the rules say to wait to set it until the ball is at the disposal of the thrower for the throw-in which would have followed the 2 FTs. Since there was a double personal foul before the AP procedure had been established, there needs to be a jump ball in the center restraining circle between the two players involved in the double personal foul.
It takes a little reading and piecing together, but it is all there in black and white for your supervisor, if he willing to read it and listen to you. Good luck.
PS Where are you located?

[OldCoachNewRef]

We are located in South Jersey, Board 34. This is my second year of class. Worked about 75 games last year, lower level HS and independent games. We take our IAABO exam for certification (2nd year people only) part 1 the Monday after Thanksgiving and part 2 (floor test) in February. We MUST get no less than an 86 on either part to be certified, or else we must take the class again next year. You cannot do Varsity games unless certified and depending on how good you are, this usually takes 3 to 5 years.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by OldCoachNewRef
We are located in South Jersey, Board 34. This is my second year of class. Worked about 75 games last year, lower level HS and independent games. We take our IAABO exam for certification (2nd year people only) part 1 the Monday after Thanksgiving and part 2 (floor test) in February. We MUST get no less than an 86 on either part to be certified, or else we must take the class again next year. You cannot do Varsity games unless certified and depending on how good you are, this usually takes 3 to 5 years.

Wow, are you ever lucky. The IAABO Part 1 answers for this year have already been posted in another thread.

I know that you wouldn't cheat and use them.

Others........I would hope that they would resist the temptation also.

[oc]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Wow, are you ever lucky. The IAABO Part 1 answers for this year have already been posted in another thread.

I know that you wouldn't cheat and use them.

Others........I would hope that they would resist the temptation also.

The thread I think you are referring to lists the refresher test (study guide) answers not the actual test. I am still looking for a copy of the refresher test if anyone has a copy they can email me-or knows where to find it on the web.

[OldCoachNewRef]

I presented the question/answer to the class last night. At first the supervisor said our group was wrong with the answer, but after looking at the answer key, he couldn't believe we were right. He is going to talk with our rules interpretor about the question and get back to us next week (final class before the test). Thank you for your posts and responses.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by OldCoachNewRef
I presented the question/answer to the class last night. At first the supervisor said our group was wrong with the answer, but after looking at the answer key, he couldn't believe we were right. He is going to talk with our rules interpretor about the question and get back to us next week (final class before the test). Thank you for your posts and responses.

Yeah! Score one for those of us here on the forum.