excessive timeout

mdray · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 11:26am

I was going over a past refresher test and had a ? about a time limit for penalizing an excessive timeout....if it is not noticed that a timeout is an excessive one, is there any period of time in which this has to be penalized? I can't find anything in the rules that addresses this, so I'm thinking, short of the final horn, when it is discovered, it is penalized.

som44 · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 11:45am

Not sure either--but i would guess if not noticed prior to the end of the time out you can not penalize--
not a correcctable error

I will be interested in what others say

Jurassic Referee · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mdray
I was going over a past refresher test and had a ? about a time limit for penalizing an excessive timeout....if it is not noticed that a timeout is an excessive one, is there any period of time in which this has to be penalized? I can't find anything in the rules that addresses this, so I'm thinking, short of the final horn, when it is discovered, it is penalized.

Rule 10-7. Penalized when discovered.

som44 · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 04:19pm

Interesting--so if time was given- game resumed -and then you were notified the time out was excesive you would penalize then?

do others agree?

Jurassic Referee · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 05:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by som44
Interesting--so if time was given- game resumed -and then you were notified the time out was excesive you would penalize then?

do others agree?

Lah me, I would certainly hope that they would agree. That's what the rule says. Couldn't be plainer.

mdray · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 06:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Rule 10-7. Penalized when discovered. [/B]

10-1-7
but I don't see any reference to a timeframe for penalizing this ...while some of the other team technicals referenced in 10-1 *do* indicate a penalty "when they occur" or "when discovered"

Jurassic Referee · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 08:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mdray

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Rule 10-7. Penalized when discovered.

10-1-7
but I don't see any reference to a timeframe for penalizing this ...while some of the other team technicals referenced in 10-1 *do* indicate a penalty "when they occur" or "when discovered"

[/B]

There is no timeframe. It's penalized when it's discovered-i.e. anytime from occurrence to game over.

Top of p61 in this years NFHS rule book- "PENALTY: (Art. 7) Penalized when discovered".

What am I missing here?

Jay R · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 09:00pm

Is the NCAA rule the same?

Jurassic Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 09:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay R
Is the NCAA rule the same?

What is this? A test? You know the NCAA rules a helluva better than I do probably, Jay.

I think that you can't penalize an excess TO in NCAA if you don't discover it before the ball next becomes alive. And if you do properly penalize it, it would be an indirect T with 2 FT's and the ball then going back to the POI(Mens).

How'd I do?

zebraman · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 10:04pm

Maybe NFHS doesn't address a time limit because they can't think we'd possibly be that careless.

As officials, we're supposed to notify a team when they are out of time-outs (well, the scorekeeper notifies the coach THROUGH the officials, but that's us right?). Then all the officials should know as well as everyone at the scorer's table. If we've done our job and one team calls an excess time-out and none of the game crew figures it out until after the ball is back in play..... how asleep at the wheel are we?

In that case, I'd say play on and let the opposing coach give us a couple lashes with a wet noodle.

Z

Jay R · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 10:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay R
Is the NCAA rule the same?

What is this? A test? You know the NCAA rules a helluva better than I do probably, Jay.

I think that you can't penalize an excess TO in NCAA if you don't discover it before the ball next becomes alive. And if you do properly penalize it, it would be an indirect T with 2 FT's and the ball then going back to the POI(Mens).

How'd I do?

Sorrrrrrrry. I just brought it up because I thought that maybe why mdray was questioning your answer.

You did great as far as I understand the rule.

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 14, 2004, 12:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
If we've done our job and one team calls an excess time-out and none of the game crew figures it out until after the ball is back in play..... how asleep at the wheel are we?

In that case, I'd say play on and let the opposing coach give us a couple lashes with a wet noodle.

You give them the T as soon as you figure it out. That's the rule. Are you saying that you don't, Z?

zebraman · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 14, 2004, 01:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
If we've done our job and one team calls an excess time-out and none of the game crew figures it out until after the ball is back in play..... how asleep at the wheel are we?

In that case, I'd say play on and let the opposing coach give us a couple lashes with a wet noodle.

You give them the T as soon as you figure it out. That's the rule. Are you saying that you don't, Z?

Correct, because the day that my entire officiating crew and the scoring crew and the coach (who was notified when he took his last time-out) don't notice that an excess time-out was taken until we are playing again is the day that I hang up my whistle. And I'm not having a T in my final game.

Z

Jurassic Referee · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 14, 2004, 01:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
If we've done our job and one team calls an excess time-out and none of the game crew figures it out until after the ball is back in play..... how asleep at the wheel are we?

In that case, I'd say play on and let the opposing coach give us a couple lashes with a wet noodle.

You give them the T as soon as you figure it out. That's the rule. Are you saying that you don't, Z?

Correct, because the day that my entire officiating crew and the scoring crew and the coach (who was notified when he took his last time-out) don't notice that an excess time-out was taken until we are playing again is the day that I hang up my whistle. And I'm not having a T in my final game.

Naw, this is one where you get the scorer that screws up and doesn't tell you when a team used it's last one. Then 2 minutes later, she beeps you and says "oh ref, btw blue has had 6 TO's". If you never had something like that happen, then you're the luckiest ref in the world.

zebraman · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 14, 2004, 01:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
If we've done our job and one team calls an excess time-out and none of the game crew figures it out until after the ball is back in play..... how asleep at the wheel are we?

In that case, I'd say play on and let the opposing coach give us a couple lashes with a wet noodle.

You give them the T as soon as you figure it out. That's the rule. Are you saying that you don't, Z?

Correct, because the day that my entire officiating crew and the scoring crew and the coach (who was notified when he took his last time-out) don't notice that an excess time-out was taken until we are playing again is the day that I hang up my whistle. And I'm not having a T in my final game.

Naw, this is one where you get the scorer that screws up and doesn't tell you when a team used it's last one. Then 2 minutes later, she beeps you and says "oh ref, btw blue has had 6 TO's". If you never had something like that happen, then you're the luckiest ref in the world.

Maybe at a Jr. High level, but I just can't imagine that happening in a varsity game. I always make the visiting scorer sit right next to the home scorer and have them compare notes as often as possible. I also think that us refs have a pretty good "feel" for when a team has taken more than 3 time-outs. I start asking the scorers for how many are left during the time-outs when I get to that point. That's one of the areas where I overcommunicate on purpose. Knock on wood, but I've never had that happen and just can't imagine it. Both scorers would have to be asleep along with my crew and the coach of that team. That would be one heck of a group nap.

Z