Coach Blows Up...

DanIvey · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 02, 2001, 03:26pm

COACH BLOWS UP...TAKES PLAYERS TO THE LOCKER ROOM DURING GAME!
Before I start I would like to say Hi to all the excellent officials in this forum. I have been unable to access this forum for a year or so and am very pleased to be back. I have been officiating for over 12 years and I am on the Board of our Local Association. With that said, the following story will show you that when you are dealing with "personalities" i.e. coaches, scorers, administrators, fans, and fellow officials...anything can happen. Maybe thats why we love this advocation so much!
Last week my partner, who is also a veteran official, and I were officiating a Boys H.S. Varsity Game. It was a big game with the local media and radio station there broadcasting it. The visiting team had just won a close game in overtime the night before in thier gym. (different officials from a different association.) The visiting team was therefore ready to come down and beat the home team,which they had lost earlier to in the beginning of the year at their "house". The home team was fighting for a playoff spot and knew it would be hard as the visiting team was well up in the Standings. Ok...so maybe that's more information than you need to know...but just consider it some background.
1st quarter...I call a personal foul on the visiting team player B1. B1 tells me that's a B---S---- call! Easy, I have a Technical foul on B1. Team B Coach comes a couple steps out on the court to meet me as I am going to report the foul and subsequent "T". Coach B yells at me "What did he say?" "What did he say?" I broke my own rule of never having to repeat profanity...just tell the coach "he used profanity coach thus the Technical Foul" or he "Commited an Unsportsmanlike Act coach"...but no, I have to show the 6'5" 300 lb. ex-big time college player turned coach that I am not intimidated by him (watch your egos new officials)...soooo, I say "He said B---Sh-- coach and if he says it again he'll be gone!" I calmly walk to the scorers' table and report the fouls as the Team B coach says "you don't have to get an attitude with me!" [Sidenote: Ok there's some history with this coach...he has been in trouble with our association before for kicking the offical's locker room door, using profanity and threatining remarks to our officials.] [Furthermore, he is not a teacher from the school but lives in the community]
Later in the 1st quarter...my partner "T"s up another Team B player for slamming the ball down hard and watching it go about 20 feet in the air for a called foul. (I wonder where these players are getting their attitudes from?) The Team B coach again goes off on my partner for not giving them any "slack". BTW the Home team is ahead in the foul count and the score by 1 pt. Close game.
2nd quarter...Home Team A makes a run toward the end of the first half and goes in at half time up by about 11 pts. Team B coach says something to us as he is exiting like "You guys are putting the game in your hands not the players"...I ignore him.
3rd quarter...Home Team A shoots the lights out, plays aggresive defense and starts to create a wider margin in the score.
4th quarter...6:50 seconds left of the quarter. Home Team A leading 81 - 49. Team B Coach is very frustrated. (The game tape was later viewed by his school administration and they found only "two travel calls" that were questionable to them in the whole game) Team B Coach evidently decides is time to spark the team. Coach B starts to yell at me "Are you happy now" "Are you happy now" Are you happy now!" I can't ignore him now as he's making a scene. I calmly give him a "T" as he is ranting and raving about being "homered"! I walk by him...and here goes the ego thing again...and say "Coach, we can't be 32 points bad" meaning how could we help a team 32 points worth? Well...he is so mad he gathers his team up and heads for the locker room. (the week before he wouldn't replace a disqualified player after fouling out...he made his team play with 4 and told the official he was not going to replace him) 1:30 left in game, official let him do it. Anyway, back to this game. I had the Team A player shoot 2 FTs for the "T". My partner wanted to forfeit game and go to the locker room. I said lets just take a deep breath and wait. The Principal of the Team B school asked me, very nicely, if he could go in the locker room and get the players to come back out. I said sure, we would wait. Team A was in shock by their bench as was the rest of the people in the stands. The police handled the crowd very good. No one came on the court. I talked my partner into waiting to see what would happen. (As it turns out, if the team had not come back on floor, they would have possibly had to forfeit the rest of their season according the State Association.) The principal talked the coach and players into coming out of the locker room...I now told the Assistant Coach he would be the Coach as the Team B Coach has just received his second technical foul for leaving the court without authorization. Call it anything you want, it was an unsportsmanlike act to pull your players off the court during a game. Team A shot two more FTs and we ended the game without anymore interuptions. Team A won.
Final Score 99-78. Team A Fouls-28 Team B Fouls-23
More fouls than I think I have ever had in a game.
Coach B ripped me in the local paper, saying it was a "homer type deal" and that I had whispered to him "Coach your down by 30, you'll be down by 50 soon." The reporter caught me as I was being escorted to my car by the local police. He asked me if he could talk to me. I ask him who he was with and he told me. I stated that I wasn't suppose to talk to the media about games. He told me what the coach had said and I simply stated that "I absolutely did not say that." He told me he didn't usually put officials names in the paper, but that he was on this occasion. He did, and he quoted me. It was actually a fair and accurate account of the game. But, you had a coach and a referee with two accounts of what was said...someone was lying.
There can be a whole lot of lessons learned here...but remember, a referee's lack of judgement should not justify a coach's lack of character.
Comments?

Rookie · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 02, 2001, 03:56pm

The only thing I can say is that you seemed to remember a lot of what the coach had done in the past and held it against him during this game.

Each game should be independant of any other game or incident.

Brian Watson · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 02, 2001, 04:25pm

Perfect reason to remember two important rules.

Try not to get into specific with coaches.

Never, ever talk to the media. In fact, I think the state can sanction officials who talk to the media here.

#4 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 02, 2001, 04:30pm

I am not saying that your actions were not warranted but, I think that since this coach seems to have a history that each game should be a chance for him to change his ways. If he doesn't give him the the universal "stop" sign then if it continues, send him on his way.

rpwall · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 02, 2001, 05:24pm

First of all, you have my sympathy ... that had to be a trying personal situation.

You are right, there does seem to be a lot of lessons to be learned.

Others have mentioned it, but I'll reiterate, you won't win an argument with a coach that does not have to do with a specific rule (except for the rare "Davism"). Foul counts, etc. have different meanings to people with different perspectives ... their meaning is subjective and will be used against you by a willing party. I am sure his point was (in his mind) the foul count should have been 58-23 ... whether it really should have been or not is irrelevant.

Another lesson seems to be don't bring up the score ... that just rubs salt in his wounds. A "That's enough coach" would be he safe route. Additionally, try to stay away from him after the "T" to minimize the risk of something being said that no one else hears ... make him yell it across the court.

About them walking off the court, that is a no-class stunt and I would let them go. This coach should be dealt with by the School and AD, none of us officials will turn him around.

About the press, it would be hard not to defend yourself aginst a specific false statement. I don't know what the right answer is there. It will be your word against his. With the high standing officials have in the community, it may be tough to come out on top (I work for an oil company, I know about trying to win uphill press battles!). In retrospect, a "no comment" to the reporter with the Association coming out after the fact with a strong endorsement is proboably the best course.

All of this is easy for me to say, sitting her in a peaceful room, much tougher to process in the heat of battle. All of your actions are understandable. It is hard to imagine that while you are in the middle of the first incident of the night, that things will snowball into a broohaha like you situation did. I think we can all learn from incidents like these.

BktBallRef · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 03, 2001, 12:18am

Sounds like you handled a bad situation very well with a couple of exceptions.

1- I would not have made the statement, "Coach, we can't be 32 points bad." Stay away from comments like that.

2- I would have refered the reporter to my booking agent and let him address the matter, assuming your area uses a booking agent. If not, follow whatever guidelines are in place about speaking to the press, which I believe you wrote, "I stated that I wasn't suppose to talk to the media about games." Stick to it.

Incidentally, the coach would have been reprimanded, put on probation or fined by the state office in NC for criticizing the officials in the newspaper. The penalty would depend upon whether it had happened before or not.

Hawks Coach · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 03, 2001, 12:23am

I think that avoiding the media is obviously the best choice in general. However, when asked directly about something you are accused of saying (which is significantly distinct from why you made a call, what someone said to you, etc.), I can see this as a case in which you did not very far over the line if your comments were confined to this specific issue. I think it is appropriate to say "no, I didn't say that, but I'm not gonna comment further." Just my thoughts as a non-ref.

As for prejudging the game, I see from the lengthy discussion of the events that transpired that DI showed a great deal of patience before breaking out the T. When he popped it, it was appropriate. I think that refs have to remember what you (and others) have dealt with in the past when you go into a game, so you can be prepared for what you will face that night - as should players and coaches. You can't tell me that refs going on the court at IU over the past 20 years should have gone in with no concept that they were dealing with one of the worst ref baiters on record. It should not influence your calls, but should affect your mental preparation for the game.

bluezebra · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 03, 2001, 01:07am

In the California Interscholastic Federation - Southern Section, this coach would be fired for pulling his team off the court. If he hadn't been fired before for his conduct.

Bob

williebfree · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 03, 2001, 06:21pm

I think RPWALL has said everything I wanted to address...

Welcome Back DanIvey... I enjoyed your thorough and candidly honest recall of this negative situation.

I also think Hawks Coach is right on target with his response...

Hopefully, We all learned from this situation...!

Alaska Ref · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 04, 2001, 04:05pm

I believe that the comments by "Hawks Coach" are very insightfull. I believe that the minute the visitor coach took his team off the floor you should have waited about a minute before a forfeit was called remember the "Travesty" rule.

Your only error was in talking to the coach, when you could have answered him with a simple sentence "coach it was an unsportmenship technical". The team was getting beat and they were looking for someone to blame it on, enter the guys with the stripes.

Have a good one,

DanIvey · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 05, 2001, 09:58am

Thats why I love this forum...you get honest, candid opinions from a wide assortment of officials and coaches. As far as the officals who said they "feel for me" or have "sympathy" for me...DON'T...I eat this stuff up! I love being in games where we officials handle controversies as they arise. Your decisions as an official are not always "black and white". We are human...we make mistakes...I have never called a perfect game, have anyone of you?
I agree with williebfree-- HawksCoach and rpwall were "right on target". Alaska Ref- you are correct- it was a "travesty" but again, the punishment of forfieting the remainder of the season's games would have been, in my opinion, unjust to the students, parents, school administrators and players for the actions of one coach.
UPDATE: The coach was given a two game suspension and the school is on probation for one year.

Brian Watson · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 05, 2001, 10:03am

What does probation mean, one more mistake they go on double secret probation, or are they out of the tourney?

[Edited by Brian Watson on Feb 5th, 2001 at 09:35 AM]

Bart Tyson · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 05, 2001, 10:30am

I can only see one rule you broke with respect to the rules, i think.

If a team leaves the court as you say, isn't this automatic forfit?

Alaska Ref · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 06, 2001, 02:21am

Danlvey,

The repercussion's of your calling a forfeit should not have influnenced you, I believe you should take the monkey off your back and put it squarely on the back of the coach where it belongs (remember Ted Valintine).

Right now the only thing the coach has learned is that being a jerk cost him a 2 game suspension and i bet he will be in the stands watching the next 2 games!

Good luck, we all learn from each other.

Hawks Coach · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 06, 2001, 07:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
I can only see one rule you broke with respect to the rules, i think. If a team leaves the court as you say, isn't this automatic forfit?

5-4-1 says its a forfeit if a team refuses to play after being instructed to do so, which seems to allow some discretion regarding the point at which they have brought a fofeit on themselves. It seems logical that leaving the court during play crosses that line, and it seems that I remember that being a forfeit. Is there a specific reference for leaving the court?