Closely Guarded ?

[blindzebra]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
[QUOTE]Originally posted by blindzebra
How can you be guarding him if he's enclosed by teammates?

You can't. That's why the rules address this specific situation. Just as a player cannot lift his foot from the lane to avoid a 3 second call or after gaining position while sitting on the floor, place the ball on the floor, stand up, and then pick the ball up to avoid a traveling call. These are all situations where the player is attempting to circumvent the rules. Such actions are specifically addressed as violations.

Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. If I have a teammate between you and I, you are no longer in my path. You no longer have LGP on me. It would have to be re-established. While a guard doesn't have to do anything to maintain LGP, it does not last forever. It does end.

Ever heard of a trap? Hello??? Is there a screen in this play from the NFHS website.

SITUATION 12: A1 is closely guarded by B1 for two seconds in Team A’s frontcourt. B2 then double-teams A1, and both B1 and B2 are closely guarding A1 for one second. B1 then drops off of A1 to cover another player. B2 continues to closely guard A1 for two more seconds. RULING: A1 has committed a violation since he/she was closely guarded continuously for a total of five seconds.

This screen play that we're discussing has previously appeared on the NFHS website and was not a violation. Think what you will but you're wrong.

I'm done.

Nope, just 100% wrong. You have nothing but your opinion, so how can I be dead wrong? Cite a rule that says a count ends during a screen.

Two parts of the rule implies a count during a screen. Where does it say exception by the screening teammates? Most times during a trap the second player does not LEAVE, they leave on a switch during a screen, however.

Like I said, cite a rule or leave your ego at the door.

[Edited by blindzebra on Nov 3rd, 2004 at 11:17 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Sorry BZ, I never argue with an idiot. You'll drag me down to your level and then beat me with experience.

Have a great day!

[ChuckElias]

Tony, I thought you said you were done!

BTW, I'll keep counting, since the book says to count within 6 feet after obtaining initial guarding position. A player between the defender and ballhandler changes neither of those conditions.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Tony, I thought you said you were done!

BTW, I'll keep counting, since the book says to count within 6 feet after obtaining initial guarding position. A player between the defender and ballhandler changes neither of those conditions.

FWIW, I agree with Chuck. I'm counting. An player in between doesn't change guarding status.

[jritchie]

4-23 initial guarding position =
-front of torso facing opponent (got that)
after guarding position obtained =
-not even required to be facing the opponent

if screener is in the way i would say this still lets you keep your count because legal guarding position still applies....

the way i see it, as long as the defense is within 6 ft and has established legal guarding position, the count goes on!!!

[bob jenkins]

NCAA 4-11.4 "When a player is positioned between the player in control of the ball and his or her opponent, who is within 6 feet (men) or 3 feet (women), a closely guarded situation does not exist.

I recognize that similar language does not appear in the FED rules book. But, I seem to recall similar language being part of some "official" FED communication (POE, seb-site interp, etc.)

[jritchie]

i would say it's not in the book because it is still a closely guarded situation....if there is not any rules against it, then we can't stop the count....

now in ncaa rules, there is a perfect rule that tells us otherwise...

thanks for the ncaa rule bob...

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by bob jenkins
NCAA 4-11.4 "When a player is positioned between the player in control of the ball and his or her opponent, who is within 6 feet (men) or 3 feet (women), a closely guarded situation does not exist.

I recognize that similar language does not appear in the FED rules book. But, I seem to recall similar language being part of some "official" FED communication (POE, seb-site interp, etc.)

Thank you, Bob. As I recall, it was an interp on the NFHS website. I'm glad someone else remembered it.

Chuck, I am "done" trying to help others understand the correct ruling. But I ususally responded when somebody directs a smartass comment at me.

But I bet you already knew that!

[Edited by BktBallRef on Nov 4th, 2004 at 02:24 PM]

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Sorry BZ, I never argue with an idiot. You'll drag me down to your level and then beat me with experience.

Have a great day!

I'm an idiot.

Pot meet kettle. Your arrogance is so strong it screams on every post.

I'll let you in on something everyone else knows, you are not right about everything. This is one of those occassions.

I'd say have a great day, but I'm sure no day could live up to your standards.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by bob jenkins
NCAA 4-11.4 "When a player is positioned between the player in control of the ball and his or her opponent, who is within 6 feet (men) or 3 feet (women), a closely guarded situation does not exist.

I recognize that similar language does not appear in the FED rules book. But, I seem to recall similar language being part of some "official" FED communication (POE, seb-site interp, etc.)

There was a complete section of this year's handout where closely guarded was highlighted as a POE.

The FED gave what was needed to start a count and what stops a count. A screening teammate was not mentioned as a count stopper. It would seem that if that stopped a count they would have put it in this POE.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by blindzebra

I'm an idiot.

Pot meet kettle. Your arrogance is so strong it screams on every post.

I'll let you in on something everyone else knows, you are not right about everything. This is one of those occassions.

I'd say have a great day, but I'm sure no day could live up to your standards.

I hope coaches aren't able to get to you as easily as I am.

If I have to pick a side on an issue based on what you say versus what Bob Jenkins says, I'll take Bob's side every time.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I hope coaches aren't able to get to you as easily as I am.

If I have to pick a side on an issue based on what you say versus what Bob Jenkins says, I'll take Bob's side every time.

This is not about sides it's about getting the correct info out about this play. If you are right PROVE it, don't preach it.

Worry about yourself. I needled you and you called me an idiot, remember. I deal with coaches just fine.

[BktBallRef]

[Jurassic Referee]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Hey, get some for me while you're out there. Thanks.