Test answers

[WindyCityBlue]

Take a deep breath and put down the knife...


Again, how you handle pressure is what separates good officials from great ones. You really should try medication.


Cheating is cheating. Supporting those who cheat, enabling them to cheat and covering for them is tantamount to the act itself. It's just very sad. Why do they need the answers if they are so talented? Is it too difficult to discuss an individual question here? Are they puzzled by all of the questions...if so, I think I know why they just want the answers.

Question 101: You witness a coach suiting up a player that isn't on the roster and is not eleigible for this level of play:

a) Ignore it, cheating is okay.
b) Tell your partner, you both could use a laugh.
c) Call your bookie. Maybe you can get a bet down on the ringer.
d) Cheating is wrong. It is unethical and has no place in a high school athletic event.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Windy,

You insult people. Call people names. Throw in their face their lack of ability because you do not like the answers. Now you want to talk about character and what assignors should think of people that are taking what is an open book test? What is your name? Why are you such the coward in letting us all know who you are, so we can find out what your character is and let your assignors know how your behavior is being perceived? You have the nerve to question the character and the integrity of people on this issue, but you have done nothing but violate all the tenets of officiating with your constant name calling and insults to people who simply have a difference of opinion than you do. If the person that started this post is a coward, when anyone looks up a coward in the dictionary, your name is there in big yellow letters.

You have a lot of freakin nerve.

Peace

Hey Rut. His intials are G. S. I'm sure you know him. Also He does this just to get a rise out of people. Best just to ignore him on the basketball forum.

[WindyCityBlue]

This is not about getting a rise out of anyone.
This is about making officials better.
You may not agree with some/much/most of what I've said here or on the baseball board, but you can't argue that providing the answers to a test is not cheating. It is called a test for a reason after all. A lot of people have failed open book tests before. More important, those that pass but have crappy scores, provide assignors and directors with one more tool in evaluating.

Can you honestly support giving someone in Illinois the answers to a test that determines promotion and playoff status? Other states do the same thing and we now have a whole lot of officials that have 99's and 100's that don't belong on a Varsity floor. Let's promote them, though...yeah, that's fair.

BTW, if Rut hasn't figured out the identity puzzle, that speaks volumes about his talent.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by blindzebra

How can you cheat on an open book test? You still have not answered that little question, perhaps someone can e-mail the answer to you.

It's cheating by copying the answer from an answer sheet without opening the book. I think a much more beneficial thing to do would be to post all the rule references for each question and leave the answer as an exercise for the student.

Originally posted by blindzebra
While you are on this bogus crusade, you repeatedly over look the obvious, which is: For the vast majority of officials this is open book, i.e. that means you can look up the answers. That makes this a study guide more than a test.

The point of an open book test is to get the person to OPEN THE BOOK. Many, if the answers are provided, will simply enter the answers and learn nothing. How many times do you make a correct call and catch hell for it because half of your partners you ever have believe one of the many myths that are so common? Too often for me.

[gordon30307]

BTW, if Rut hasn't figured out the identity puzzle, that speaks volumes about his talent. [/B][/QUOTE]

BTW, I've worked with Rut he's a good official and he doesn't need me to defend him. As I said I respect your abilities as a baseball umpire but you're a little thin skinned yourself and you show it when you attack people. A little lacking in self confidence by posting annonymously?

[WindyCityBlue]

RookieDude,

Now you're getting it...we're here to learn from others.
I've learned an awful lot from officials that were much better and far worse than I.

In answer to your question:
I actually had this play happen to me at the high school and college levels. In the high school game, I ejected the kid for unsportsmalike conduct on a Friday night. That team showed up for a round robin tournament the next day. The kid comes out dressed to play first, just as we enter the field. His coach hands my partner the line up card and asks if everything is correct. (We talked in our "locker room" about this joker and how he earned an early exit.) He informed the coach that he had listed a player that was ineligible and urged him to handle the issue or we would. The coach acknowledged that the kid got bounced but tried to explain that he was only ineligible for the next "conference game". (Now you know why I advocate actually knowing the rules and taking the test by yourself. If he insisted on playing him, I would have informed him that I was going to contact his AD, the Principal and the IHSA through a Special Report. This is a fairly serious matter in Illinois and he would have faced some pointed questions from the powers that be. That probably would have handled it before having to eject the coach or escalating it.

That said, your question inferred that I witnessed the kid being ejected the game prior. Was I a fan or an on-court official? Maybe it doesn't matter in this sport, but enforcing it could make it a "no he wasn't/yes he was affair". I hate those and try not to look for more trouble than comes my way out there. Again, I'm not a high school basketball official, but stayed in a Holiday Inn express last night.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

It's cheating by copying the answer from an answer sheet without opening the book. I think a much more beneficial thing to do would be to post all the rule references for each question and leave the answer as an exercise for the student.

The point of an open book test is to get the person to OPEN THE BOOK. Many, if the answers are provided, will simply enter the answers and learn nothing. How many times do you make a correct call and catch hell for it because half of your partners you ever have believe one of the many myths that are so common? Too often for me.

And you can tell from,"Please send me the answers at..." that these posters are not taking the test, not looking up the rule, and just filling in the little circles.

[WindyCityBlue]

gordon,
stick around the baseball site for a while.
I think you'll learn a whole lot.
I pick my battles very carefully and offer advice and criticism as merited. You'll find very few that can actually argue with my advice in baseball. They may not like the messenger, but the message has made more than a few of them much more capable.

lastly, you may want to rewind the tape and see who threw the daggers first. I argue that cheating is unacceptable in officiating...period, end of story. I did not call names (okay cheater is a name, but nothing else is appropriate) but Rut jumped in and went postal. Liek I've said all along, the best officials learn how to handle pressure and respond to criticism. Communication is our most important tool. Being aware of better ways to think or act, but refusing to implement them is ignorant, not courageous. I challenge officials to think outside of the box (remember, I proposed doing whatever was necessary to get the call right back in April - look at the World Series!). I urge them to put the game first and keep getting better. Read the Sprinkles exchange and then determine who is kidding who.

[WindyCityBlue]

blindzebra,

In Illinois, this test qualifies you for promotion and makes you eligible for post season assignments. All things being equal - the kid that gets the higher score because he cheats may get the assignment over the guy who deserves it.


Does anyone have tonight's winning Illinois lottery numbers?
I want to be a multi millionaire, but don't want to earn it.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
blindzebra,

In Illinois, this test qualifies you for promotion and makes you eligible for post season assignments. All things being equal - the kid that gets the higher score because he cheats may get the assignment over the guy who deserves it.


Does anyone have tonight's winning Illinois lottery numbers?
I want to be a multi millionaire, but don't want to earn it.

Okay, said cheater gets the big game, very unlikely despite what the by-laws say, and cheater F's up a rule. Cheater's big game chances are zip from that point on.

Someone who's taking a short cut, would most likely kick a rule during the season, thus never making the big game.

Someone prone to short cuts, would also likely have it show in their mechanics, again making that big game unlikely.

Someone taking short cuts would not go to camps, would disappear in rules meetings, and the word would get out about them during the season, all making that playoff game unlikely.

It comes to this, if the state says the criteria is based on several factors the test is so far down on that list it's laughable. What happens with a test in November has much less impact than what happens on the court in December and January.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Jurassic,
I can't believe that we can actually agree on something.

Sigh.

Windy, trust me, there is very little that we do actually agree on here. Certainly, there's not very much agreement on a lot of the statements that you have made in the threads that I just read. You're doing this more as a personal crusade against Rut than anything else.

Yes, the potential might now be there for cheating in certain areas. Yes, I don't like the practise of giving out test answers at this time of year when officials all over the country are taking this test. And this is about the 4th. year, I think, that we've argued on this forum about this exact same practise too. No, I do not have any specific knowledge about any official using these test answers to actually cheat. Yes, I have too much respect in general for my fellow basketball officials to suggest that any of them would actually cheat. Ever.

We are, however, held up to a higher standard than anyone else in this sport. And rightfully so. Sending actual exam answers out over the internet while officials might still be taking the exam somewhere leaves us open to criticism from non-official sources imo. And it certainly leaves us open to people that might have their own axe to grind too.

And.......I thought that my wondering why the new officials who want these answers to improve their rules knowledge aren't also taking advantage of an excellent in-house rules test too was a valid concern also.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by totalnewbie
JR as a new official I understand your concern about new officials getting the answers. I requested the test before I understood that it was actually the very test I would be taking. My intent was to use it as a study aid and another sample test. I thought we would be taking our own test (a different one). Once I got it emailed to me, I learned that I was going to be taking that particular test. I never opened the attachment and didnt use it. I agree that even though the test is open book, as a new official if I cant pass the test under the appropriate time constraints and circumstances as everyone else then I shouldnt get to be an official. And when I took the test I did not use any of the info on discussion threads on the questions from this forum. I want to learn it myself and do it myself. Now that I have taken the test (I finished it yesterday and we turn it in tonite) I have started talking about the questions here. Maybe I am being to anal and scrupulous, and I am not saying that what I did is what everyone should do. I just wanted to make sure I could do it on my own.

Clark

Clark, I hope to see you on tv some day. You certainly got your head in the right place, and you're starting out with a great attitude. Good luck. And keep coming to this forum. There is an amazing amount of knowledge and experience here from posters all over the country. And they're willing to share it too.

[rainmaker]

Well, if it's the Part 1 test we're talking about here, we get the test itself in our registration packets, without the answers. We get the answers a few weeks later. But it's very difficult to study if you don't know whether you're right or wrong. I wanted the answers so I could correct the test which I had ALREADY TAKEN before I got the answers. This actually helps me do better on the part 2 test, which we take in a week or two, with no help, and no open book available.

So, Windy, there is at least one legitimate reason to request the answers.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by blindzebra

And you can tell from,"Please send me the answers at..." that these posters are not taking the test, not looking up the rule, and just filling in the little circles.

That's the whole point. You can't tell. But, if you provide direct rule references, you konw that they will at least have to open the book to see for themselves.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

That's the whole point. You can't tell. But, if you provide direct rule references, you konw that they will at least have to open the book to see for themselves.

I wish we could get a page with both the answers and the references. It's so incredibly frustrating to just get an answer and not find a reference to back it up. And some of the references are in the weirdest places...