7.6 seconds on the clock in second half....

[WeekendRef]

Team A inbounds directly in front of Team B bench and I drop the hammer to start the clock . Team B is pressuring the ball (man to man) and Player A dribbles across the court to far sideline and begins to move up to mid court where she is trapped and then stripped of the ball .I have gotten up to 4 on my visual count when ball is stripped . Team B then proceeds to run down the court and hit a layup to bring them within 1 . After the ball goes thru the hoop I glance up at the clock and see it start at that moment . I blow my whistle and call the end of the game citing definitive knowledege of the time that had elapsed .Now my definitive knowledge may have been more of a guestimation as I had a 4 count when Team A had possession ,then roughly another second elapsed on the trap and finally I don't think it is possible for a mediocre 6th grade girl player to race from mid court and put in a layup in 2 seconds .
I thought I made a good call but my partner overruled me....yes I said overruled me and instucted them to put 1.6 seconds on the clock (we played out the 1.6 with nothing happening). Now before you tell me he can't overrule me I agree with you but he is my "mentor" as this is my first year and he is a seasoned D1 official . We talked about it in our "locker room" after the game and I told him that I did not agree with what he did but he called it good game management...which again I disagreed with .
Is there anything I could have done differently (other then checking to make sure the clock had started)....

[ChrisSportsFan]

in those situations, especially when throw in spot is right near table, I get eye contact with timer and remind them to start on my chop. though situation when it's your mentor, you don't want to alienate him but at same time, you don't want the credibility of your crew jepordized. His decision to put 1.6 on the clock comes with the knowledge that most 6th grade girls games, it's more probable that you'll have a jump ball then someone make a last second shot. The only problem is in the overruling.

[ChuckElias]

1) If your count was 4, you can only take 4 seconds off the clock -- even tho you have definite knowledge that more than 4 seconds elapsed. You can only take off as much as you know for sure.

2) What was the "overrule" like? Did you and partner discuss it before he put 1.6 on the clock? You had 4 seconds on your count, and maybe your partner had 2 seconds of a count after this. That would make your partner's solution correct.

3) This isn't really a situation of overruling a partner's call. You didn't call a violation or foul that he disagreed with. This is a timing situation which should be discussed as a crew before coming to a decision.

[cmathews]

I agree there is a problem with the overrule, a small problem, the big problem is what you call definitive knowledge...at best you had definitive knowledge of putting 3.6 seconds on the clock. I agree that most likely it would have run out, but most likely is non definitive knowledge. The book mentions what can be used and you were correct that you can use your count...but you can't guess at the rest all you can do is make it as correct as possible...by the book anyway...I probably would have gone with 3 seconds on the clock in my game...then again it is a lower level game so a good time to learn...

[Dan_ref]

If your buddy was the R he did have the right to over rule you - he decided to count a goal when the officials (you & he) disagreed and he made a decision on timing by putting the extra time back on.

Good game management? Probably yes, since it's unlikely anything's gonna happen with 1.6 sec left in a 6th grade girl's game. Now if B would have stolen the inbounds pass & put in a layup to win...now that would have been something to talk about!


Anyway, don't let this ruin your relationship with your mentor. Stuff happens.

[WeekendRef]

Just to clarify I did count the basket to bring them within 1 point I belw the whistle after the ball went thru the hoop and bounced once or twice .
In name only was I the R during the game (I administered the jump ball and possesion for the 2nd half) .
In 5.10.2 it states that : "An officials count or OTHER official information can be used to make a correction"
What other official information could there be other then an officials count ?
MY partner and I did not confer on any of the timing issues and that may have been the crux of the issue . I made my call that the game was over and he came in and said there should be 1.6 seconds left .
The timer started the clock after the ball went through the hoop and then stopped it at 1.6 seconds for some reason...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by WeekendRef
Just to clarify I did count the basket to bring them within 1 point I belw the whistle after the ball went thru the hoop and bounced once or twice .
In name only was I the R during the game (I administered the jump ball and possesion for the 2nd half) .
In 5.10.2 it states that : "An officials count or OTHER official information can be used to make a correction"
What other official information could there be other then an officials count ?
MY partner and I did not confer on any of the timing issues and that may have been the crux of the issue . I made my call that the game was over and he came in and said there should be 1.6 seconds left .
The timer started the clock after the ball went through the hoop and then stopped it at 1.6 seconds for some reason...

Seems like your partner took the path of least resistance. 1.6 on the clock, 1.6 we got. This works at this level since probalby neither coach knew the clock didn't start.

Examples of other official information: an authorized tableside monitor (no such animal under nfhs rule), a shot clock (some states use this), the timer 'fessing up to his mistake or otherwise having definite information ("The clock wouldn't start when I pressed the button but I counted 4 seconds until it started"). SOmething like this happened to me in a game. B1 deflected a long pass OOB and it hit the table squarely on the shot clock reset button. Some shot clocks have a reset-reset button, it remembers where it was when the shot clock is reset. This one did not, but the timekeeper (not the shot clock operator) saw there was 9 seconds on the shot clock before he ducked out of the way. We went with 9 seconds.

[ChuckElias]

Another example of official information is when an official scorer writes down the time showing on the clock for some reason. Like when a timeout is granted. Or some colleges (and pro teams) have somebody at the table to record the time of every basket.

[Kelvin green]

What you might not have considered is..

If this is a D1 guy seasoned he knows clock management. You may not have been in a position to see the clock and he may have been...

In this case he may have been counting time in his head and after score knew what time it should have been set too. I dont know what your discussions were of he brought it up... but If it was me I would probably know...

Both officials should know what the time is. I would be telling my partner 7.6... He would bring it in but I would be counting...

There have been times my partner was bringing ball up from backcourt and has got to mid court and did not know clock was stopped but I did. On those I usualuu go out and ask partner what his count was when theey hit the mid court line....

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by WeekendRef

In name only was I the R during the game (I administered the jump ball and possesion for the 2nd half) .

Based upon this, I can say that your partner was incorrect by rule to alter your decision regarding the clock.
ONLY the REFEREE can instruct the timer to adjust the clock.
2-5-5
The referee shall: ...Decide matters upon which the timer and scorer disagree and correct obvious timing errors.

Even though you were correct according to the rules, I would more than likely follow the lead and advice of my mentor and DI official friend in a situation like this.

If I were the mentor, I would advise my inexperienced partner, probably even strongly implore, but I would let him make the final decision because that is what the rules say to do.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Even though you were correct according to the rules,

How do you figure it's correct by rule to take 7.6 off the clock when you've only counted to 4?

Or were you only refering to the "nobody can overrule" part?