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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 14, 2004, 11:07am
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i know ncaa does this, but in high school we have been told before not to do this... have they just added this into the rule book (2.9.3) or is it just a state adopted thing..or am i reading it wrong...seems like to me if it's in the nfhs book, we should all be able to do it...
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Old Thu Oct 14, 2004, 11:28am
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Quote:
Originally posted by jritchie
i know ncaa does this, but in high school we have been told before not to do this... have they just added this into the rule book (2.9.3) or is it just a state adopted thing..or am i reading it wrong...seems like to me if it's in the nfhs book, we should all be able to do it...
It's been in the NFHS Mechanics manual for several years (3?)
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Old Fri Oct 15, 2004, 12:46pm
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i realize that!!!

i was just asking does any other states not allow this?? it doesn't make any sense not to, but kentucky still will not let us do this in high school situations!
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Old Sat Oct 16, 2004, 09:59pm
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I havent heard one way or another in Ohio...We (or at least I) almost always bounce on sidelines and almost always hand on end lines.

On the sidelines, it lets you get back out of the way.
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Old Sun Oct 17, 2004, 09:12pm
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Just fine (in fact recommended for a better angle) to bounce the ball to the thrower on the sidelines. I can't think of anything that our state has asked us not to do that the FED allows. Why would they do that? Aren't the states "working for" NFHS?

Z
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Old Sun Oct 17, 2004, 09:19pm
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In Illinois, the interpretation is to bounce the ball when along the sideline and NEVER along the baseline.

The rational is that you should almost always bounce the ball along the sideline because it allows you to obtain better positioning in case the play moves towards the backcourt (lob entry pass, quick steal, etc.). This is even the case when administering the thow-in at the begining of a period or even after a technical foul.

There is no advantage gained on the baseline; you should be putting the ball in at the nearest spot to the violation or foul. As a result, you should never administer throw-in via the "bounce".
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Old Sun Oct 17, 2004, 09:51pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeffpea

There is no advantage gained on the baseline; you should be putting the ball in at the nearest spot to the violation or foul. As a result, you should never administer throw-in via the "bounce".
I don't have my officials manual with me, but I'm quite certain that you are allowed to bounce the ball to the thrower along the baseline in the backcourt . Doing so, allows you a wider view and lets you observe a lot more than being closer to the thrower. Note however that there are no examples that show the referee bouncing the ball across the key.

Z
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Old Sun Oct 17, 2004, 10:47pm
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In our gigh school association in Ohio, we instruct our members to bouce the ball along the sidelines and also along the endline in the backcourt.

But, hand the ball to the player along the endline when the ball is staying in the front court.
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Old Sun Oct 17, 2004, 11:44pm
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Wink We have been down this road before.

Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman


I don't have my officials manual with me, but I'm quite certain that you are allowed to bounce the ball to the thrower along the baseline in the backcourt . Doing so, allows you a wider view and lets you observe a lot more than being closer to the thrower. Note however that there are no examples that show the referee bouncing the ball across the key.

Z
Z,

Jeff is not telling you what the NF allows, he is telling you what the IHSA does not allow us to do. These are the people that assign us playoff games and dictate our status as officials. The IHSA told us not to bounce the ball EVER ON THE BASELINE, because officials were more likely to cheat up the court. This came from the Head IHSA Basketball Clinician himself and is taught by the other IHSA Clinicians in basketball. As I have told you before, we have directives that are not in a 100% agreement with the NF.

Peace
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Old Mon Oct 18, 2004, 12:24am
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Re: We have been down this road before.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Jeff is not telling you what the NF allows, he is telling you what the IHSA does not allow us to do.

Yeah, I understood that. He also said that there is no advantage gained by bouncing the ball to a thrower on the end line in backcourt and that is incorrect.

These are the people that assign us playoff games and dictate our status as officials.

understood that too

The IHSA told us not to bounce the ball EVER ON THE BASELINE, because officials were more likely to cheat up the court.

So why don't they just tell you to not cheat up the court rather than to not bounce the ball? Correct the bad habits rather than eliminating a useful mechanic.

This came from the Head IHSA Basketball Clinician himself and is taught by the other IHSA Clinicians in basketball. As I have told you before, we have directives that are not in a 100% agreement with the NF.

It must be a bummer to work in a state whose interpreter's think they know more than their bosses, the heads of NFHS.


Z

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Old Mon Oct 18, 2004, 12:46am
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Re: Re: We have been down this road before.

Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman

Yeah, I understood that. He also said that there is no advantage gained by bouncing the ball to a thrower on the end line in backcourt and that is incorrect.
Well that was an opinion. There is nothing that says you have to disagree with that. Just because the NF does it or allows it, does not make it right.



"The IHSA told us not to bounce the ball EVER ON THE BASELINE, because officials were more likely to cheat up the court."


Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
So why don't they just tell you to not cheat up the court rather than to not bounce the ball? Correct the bad habits rather than eliminating a useful mechanic.
Why did Bush go to war? That is a question you would have to ask them. I just know this was the remedy to handle it. They said it was better to hand the ball to the thrower. I do not disagree.

Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
It must be a bummer to work in a state whose interpreter's think they know more than their bosses, the heads of NFHS.
Well considering that the Head Clinician is a former Big Ten Officials, I would say on many levels the answer to that question is YES.

I realize Z you feel the NF is God and can do no wrong, but many around here and across the country do not agree with that feeling. I have only officiated in one state than Illinois in my career (baseball in Iowa) and it is not uncommon to have states come up with their own directives and practices. You do not have to agree, but that does not mean we all have to agree with you.

Peace
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Old Mon Oct 18, 2004, 10:28am
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Re: Re: Re: We have been down this road before.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
Well considering that the Head Clinician is a former Big Ten Officials, I would say on many levels the answer to that question is YES.

No, the answer is NO. He may have been god in the Big Ten (and he may be your God), but in high school basketball he is working for the NFHS. I know that it drives the NFHS nuts when officials who do both HS and college cannot separate the two and try to filter college mechanics down to HS games. It is a constant battle for NFHS to try to avoid getting "big timed" by well-meaning college officials who try to make the high school game "better."


I realize Z you feel the NF is God and can do no wrong, but many around here and across the country do not agree with that feeling.


To respect the rules and mechanics of an organization you are working for requires me to think of them as God? I don't think so. When I do an NFHS game, I use NFHS mechanics.


Z
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Old Mon Oct 18, 2004, 10:54am
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Wow - the level of discourse gets "heated" pretty fast! The upcoming Presidential Election must be rubbing off......or maybe we all need the season to start real soon.

The whole purpose of the bounce/no bounce technique is to put yourself in a better position to anticipate and officate the play. Clearly there is a distinct advantage gained by the official bouncing the ball on the sideline. I'm not sure I see where you would gain an advantage along an endline in the backcourt. It would be easy to say that it's "lazy" to bounce on the endline, but that starts the "name-calling" again........When you see someone bounce, do they back-up into a good position and THEN bounce/administer (which is what you should do), or do they bounce and then move (which is poor positioning - you shouldn't move after administering).

I agree with the interp. that you shouldn't bounce on any endline in any situation. As with all things when it comes to officiating....."when in Rome".
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Old Mon Oct 18, 2004, 11:13am
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Jeffpea,

I agree with the "do as in Rome." It's just too bad that there are so many Romans who think they are Caeser.

Any time an interpreter in our state has tried to implement "their own ideas," it has been followed shortly thereafter by a bulletin from our state to all associations to do it according to the NFHS's way and ignore Caeser.

I agree that it's "lazy" to bounce the ball across the key on the endline in backcourt. However, to get outside the player and bounce the ball to them actually requires a few more steps and allows you to see the thrower (and the player defending them) plus some other players in backcourt. It's a better view than being closer to the thrower IMHO.

We always back up to get a good angle and then bounce the ball to the thrower.

Z
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Old Mon Oct 18, 2004, 11:37am
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I guess I was assuming that you would ALWAYS administer the ball (in the situation you describe) while on the "outside" (nearest the sideline) of the player. As a result, handing the ball and taking a couple of steps back will provide you with the angle/view you need.

Unless the spot throw-in is at the 3pt line, I can't think of a reason to administer the ball when you are standing on the "inside" (nearest the lane) of the thrower. There certainly is NEVER a reason to administer the ball to the thrower across the lane and then back out (across the lane; under the basket). That, in my opinion, is lazy.
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