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Wed Sep 22, 2004, 02:01pm
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player A1 and B1 both have blood on them, you stop play to either get a sub or both coaches must use time out to get their player back in the game if they so wish...do you take those time outs simultaneously or do you give a 2 minute timeout??????
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DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE! 
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Wed Sep 22, 2004, 02:19pm
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The team that called it first gets the first time-out. Their player has to be ready at the end of THAT time-out. Then I ask the other coach if he/she wants a time-out to keep his/her player in the game. You don't give two time-outs to cover one time-out duration.
Z
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Wed Sep 22, 2004, 04:01pm
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Quote:
Here's the rule: Unless a Time-out is requested by his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the resumption of play. To me, that reads that the player must be ready by the time the ball is to be thrown in. If the other team calls a timeout, that first player gets until the end of the second time out. We shouldn't be makeing a race to see who can get the timeout called first. The only advantage to be gained is that the team not granted the first timeout gets 1 extra minute to decide if they want to call a timeout or not.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
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Wed Sep 22, 2004, 04:18pm
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No, this was specifically addressed. The original rule is that you have to be ready to play right away (after injury is tended to or blood is tended to) or you're removed. The exception is that Team A can call a time-out to keep player A1 in the game. If Team B wants to keep B1 in the game, Team B ALSO has to call a time-out. If A called the time-out first, A1 has to be ready at the end of that time-out or they get subbed for. If B1 is ready at the end of Team A's time-out, B1 cannot play. Team B has to take a time-out to keep B1 in the game. If A1 wasn't ready at the end of Team A's time-out, Team A cannot come in at the end of Team B's time-out.
There was some confusion about this in our state so we requested an official interpretation from NFHS and that is what we received. Z P.S. I just noticed this clarification on the NFHS website which makes it even more clear: 3-3-6 Note Added a new note clarifying that both teams must request a time-out in order to keep two opposing players in the game that were both directed to leave for injury/blood. [Edited by zebraman on Sep 22nd, 2004 at 07:58 PM]
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Wed Sep 22, 2004, 09:26pm
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I think that if both teams are going to call a TO then both players get the benefit of the two TO...this is a point I would argue with an evaluator, at the risk of being marked down...it is patently unfair to require A1 to be ready after 1 minute and give B1 2 minutes....hopefully it doesn't happen that often....
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Thu Sep 23, 2004, 08:11am
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we brought this up at our state meeting and they said they would get back to us, and of course they never did...but i do agree it wouldn't be fair to one team to have to take the first one and the other team to have 2 minutes to get a player ready to go...this has to be brought up!!! i think they should ask both coaches if they wish to have their player back in the game, if they both say yes, then both be charged a time out and have one time out, and if only one says yes, then still have a time out, but team b's player can't come back in till the clock moves!! that is just my opinion
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DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
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Thu Sep 23, 2004, 08:24am
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And just to muddy the waters, I believe that in the NCAA, if A1 and B1 are both directed to leave and then Team A calls a TO, B1 can return to the game if s/he is ready to play by the end of Team A's TO.
I don't think the NCAA requires that player's team to request the TO. AR-13 and AR-14 on page 54 of the '04 rulebook seem to be in direct contradiction. There was a question on the test last year. And since the AR's were confusing, I gave the FED answer and got it wrong. I believe that any player directed to leave the game (for blood or injury) is allowed to stay in the game if s/he is ready to play at the end of a TO, regardless of which team requested it. If anybody has better information, I would love to hear it.
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Thu Sep 23, 2004, 08:56am
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Chuck,
Fed answer here...I know last year in order for a player to come back in it had to be on a TO charged to their team... but it makes more sense the other way....wow what a concept that something doesn't make sense with the fed hu....LOL no idea on the NCAA ruling however...
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Thu Sep 23, 2004, 09:08am
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This year's rulebook- amended and clarified NFHS R3-3-6NOTE- "If players from both teams are directed to leave the game because of injury/blood, both teams must request and be granted a time-out in order to keep each player in the game". It's also mentioned in the front as a "2004-05 Major Editorial Change"--i.e. "Added a new note clarifying that both teams must request a time-out to keep two opposing players in the game that were both directed to leave for injury/blood".
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Thu Sep 23, 2004, 10:23am
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OK, I'm confused...You notice both players have blood on them. You blow your whistle, notify the coaches who can either sub them right away and continue play or they have to call a time out. Right? If A calls the time out, B benifets (or vise versa) Right?
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If you're going to be stupid, be all the way stupid!
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Thu Sep 23, 2004, 10:25am
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Quote:
Z
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Thu Sep 23, 2004, 10:27am
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Thanks, JR. Just to be clear then, the NCAA and NF interps are the same now. Correct?
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Thu Sep 23, 2004, 10:30am
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Would it not be much simpler if both the NFHS and NCAA said that the player(s) cannot return to the game until the first opportunity to subsitute after the clock has started. We would not have to worry about who did and did not call a timeout, nor would we have to worry about one timeout starting and then a second timeout starting before the end of the second timeout.
Remember the old adage: KISS -- Keep It Simple Stupid. The rules committees have forgotten KISS. MTD, Sr.
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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn. Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn. Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials Ohio High School Athletic Association Toledo, Ohio
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Thu Sep 23, 2004, 11:09am
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but what if
you are in a national championship game..2 seconds to go, getting ready to inbound the ball, one of team b players scratches an old wound to make it bleed and wipes it on Team A's best player that they know will take the last shot...so with your ruling the best player is out of the game and not able to return, game over...advantage gained by team b.....should that be able to happen...it's hard to keep things simple when you have these smart coaches that try to get around the rules
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