Question about a rule

[81artmonk]

I play in a community basketball league (adult men). Governed by High school and NCAA rules or so they say. The other night I was about 2 feet below the freethrow line positioning myself as a defender was running toward me to make a lay-up. about 6 steps before the opponent reached me I make the choice to stop where I was raise my hands straight up and just stand there. The player did not swerve around me and clipped half my body and sent me flying. I was assessed the foul for blocking. I asked the ref if I had moved or stuck my hip out as to create contact and he said no, that by just standing there and allowing the player to run into me is a blocking foul every time. He told me I should have moved instead of just standing there. Needless to say I argued the call. My understanding has always been that if I have two feet planted have position, and the opposing player DOESN'T have at least one shoulder past me and creates contact that that is charging. What is the official rule on charging and blocking and is there some site where I can print out the rule if I am right to discuss this further with the refs that govern our games??? please email me

[email protected]

[JRutledge]

I do not know how a league can use both NF (High School rules) and NCAA Rules. It has to be one or the other, unless you want craziness.

I am really confused by your post. Not sure I understand what you are asking.

Having said that, you have a right to a position on the court. As long as you have established legal guarding position as a defender, you can keep your position. But there is no such thing as "two feet planted" in the rulebook. You can move your feet to maintain LGP.

It sounds like the official was wrong, but I am not completely sure what he told you. That is the part you lost me.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

It sounds like the official that you had didn't really know or understand the rule, which isn't really that uncommon in recreation leagues. The basic rule for guarding says:
- You have to initially establish a "legal guarding position", which you do by getting in your opponent's path, and then facing your opponent with both feet on the floor.
- As Jeff said, once you have established your "legal guarding position", you can maintain by it by moving laterally or obliquely, but you never can be moving towards your opponent when the contact occurs. There is no longer any prerequisite that you have to keep both feet on the floor, or that you must be "set" when the contact occurs. You do have to be completely inbounds though. You don't even have to continue facing your opponent; you can turn or duck to protect yourself from the contact. You don't have to allow any minimum distance, either, after you established your legal guarding position. The onus for contact shifted equally to your opponent and yourself, dependant on where the contact occurs.
- If contact occurs, we look to see where the point of contact is. If you have maintained a legal guarding position and the contact is now on your torso, then the correct call should be a charge. If the contact is outside your torso, on an arm or outstretched leg for example, then the correct call would be a block on the defender.
- Note that the above doesn't apply completely if the offensive player becomes airborne. In that case, you have to be there before the player leaves his feet; you can't move under or into the path of an airborne player after he has left his feet, no matter if you are set or not when the contact occurs.

Try the link below; click on the NCAA basketball playing rules and look in rule #4 under "Guarding". These are in pdf format, and are printable.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules.html

Welcome to the forum.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Sep 10th, 2004 at 07:22 AM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
You don't have to allow any minimum distance, either, after you established your legal guarding position.

As long as you are guarding the player with the ball, as was the case in the original example. If you are guarding a player who does not have the ball, however, time and distance may be factors.

[OldCoachNewRef]

At a clinic I attended last week, we were told to always call the block if the defender was standing directly under the basket because the defender is not really playing defense. Kind of like the circle in the NBA. The people running the clinic stated the circle will most likely filter down to college and HS.

Maybe the official misunderstood the positioning of the defender HAD to be under the basket.

[Edited by OldCoachNewRef on Sep 10th, 2004 at 10:44 AM]

[zebraman]

Originally posted by OldCoachNewRef
At a clinic I attended last week, we were told to always call the block if the defender was standing directly under the basket because the defender is not really playing defense. Kind of like the circle in the NBA. The people running the clinic stated the circle will most likely filter down to college and HS.

Maybe the official misunderstood the positioning of the defender HAD to be under the basket.

[Edited by OldCoachNewRef on Sep 10th, 2004 at 10:44 AM]

Who was running that clinic? That is in direct contradiction to NFHS rules.

Z

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman


Who was running that clinic? That is in direct contradiction to NFHS rules.

Z

It might be, but it is a widely used philosophy. The NF does not hire you or fire you when you do something outside of what an area wants.

Peace

[ref18]

Originally posted by JRutledge

It might be, but it is a widely used philosophy. The NF does not hire you or fire you when you do something outside of what an area wants.

Peace

This has got to be one of the most inconsistantly called rules.

And now I have some understanding why, until the NFHS/NCAA changes it, call it how it's writtain, defender has gained legal guarding posistion, then any contact is a player control foul. It has to be called the same across the board, "one rule, one interpretation"

It might be, but it is a widely used philosophy. The NF does not hire you or fire you when you do something outside of what an area wants.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by OldCoachNewRef
At a clinic I attended last week, we were told to always call the block if the defender was standing directly under the basket because the defender is not really playing defense. Kind of like the circle in the NBA. The people running the clinic stated the circle will most likely filter down to college and HS.

Maybe the official misunderstood the positioning of the defender HAD to be under the basket.

[Edited by OldCoachNewRef on Sep 10th, 2004 at 10:44 AM]

If this was a Women's NCAA clinic, then the presenter was absolutely correct...if not, then it must just be the way they want it called in your area...either way, call it the way your boss tells you to.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ref18


This has got to be one of the most inconsistantly called rules.

And now I have some understanding why, until the NFHS/NCAA changes it, call it how it's writtain, defender has gained legal guarding posistion, then any contact is a player control foul. It has to be called the same across the board, "one rule, one interpretation"

I do disagree with that. This is not the most inconsistent rule called. Three seconds is on the rulebook and you see all kind of philosophies behind how that rule is called or not called. Palming has a philosophy behind it. Shall I go on? The point is if there is a philosophy, as long as you stick to the philosophy in your game, I have not problem with it. I do not want to hear what they did the night before, that game was different and I am sure it was played differently. I might call hand checking one night a certain way, the next night call it differently because the skill of the players have changed and maybe we have a more physical teams participating. The rulebook is just a guideline. It is up to us to decide what works and what does not. The players and coaches need to adjust accordingly.

Peace

[OldCoachNewRef]

I am in my second year of officiating. This is the year to get certified. I will be taking the written test in Nov and will have my mechanics evaluated in March. If that situation is presented in the game I am getting evaluated, I am calling a block, otherwise, since evaluations are very subjective, I may get points taken off. If that same sit is on the written test, I call it a charge. I need to get at least an 86 in both parts to be certified or I will be attending the same classes and tests again next year.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by JRutledge

It might be, but it is a widely used philosophy. The NF does not hire you or fire you when you do something outside of what an area wants.

Peace

An "area" or a particular assignor? The case I saw where an assignor wanted a block called on the defense becaue the defender was stationed "too deep" was an assignor who also works college ball. When I pointed out to him that the high school rule was different, he apologized and changed his opinion. I know it's difficult to challenge the person who decides your schedule, but when they are ignorant to the rules, we have to be courageous enough to give them some education. If you are a strong enough ref, they won't hold it against you. In fact, they might have new respect for you.

Z

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by OldCoachNewRef
I am in my second year of officiating. This is the year to get certified. I will be taking the written test in Nov and will have my mechanics evaluated in March. If that situation is presented in the game I am getting evaluated, I am calling a block, otherwise, since evaluations are very subjective, I may get points taken off. If that same sit is on the written test, I call it a charge. I need to get at least an 86 in both parts to be certified or I will be attending the same classes and tests again next year.

You should always look at the NF tests or any rules tests as what the rulebook says about the issue. In the real world you have to call what is accepted and what is expected.

I am sure you will have 14 other questions that will not deal with just one issue. You will do fine.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by 81artmonk
I play in a community basketball league (adult men). Governed by High school and NCAA rules or so they say. The other night I was about 2 feet below the freethrow line positioning myself as a defender was running toward me to make a lay-up. about 6 steps before the opponent reached me I make the choice to stop where I was raise my hands straight up and just stand there. The player did not swerve around me and clipped half my body and sent me flying. I was assessed the foul for blocking. I asked the ref if I had moved or stuck my hip out as to create contact and he said no, that by just standing there and allowing the player to run into me is a blocking foul every time. He told me I should have moved instead of just standing there. Needless to say I argued the call. My understanding has always been that if I have two feet planted have position, and the opposing player DOESN'T have at least one shoulder past me and creates contact that that is charging. What is the official rule on charging and blocking and is there some site where I can print out the rule if I am right to discuss this further with the refs that govern our games??? please email me

[email protected]

Sounds like these refs just don't know the rules. When you are stationary in HS or college rules, you can not be guilty of blocking when a player runs into you as long as you got to that spot in sufficient time. His argument that you should have been moving to avoid a block in never true.

[cford]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Sounds like these refs just don't know the rules. When you are stationary in HS or college rules, you can not be guilty of blocking when a player runs into you as long as you got to that spot in sufficient time. His argument that you should have been moving to avoid a block in never true.

You have to have your feet within shoulder width in order for it to be a charge (LGP?). If you have your legs spread eagle then it would be a block, right? I can't remember were this is in the book, maybe under LGP?

This might have been the case in this game.