Preliminary Signals

Dbyb · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 03:06pm

I know many officials give a prelimiary foul signal when its a block. But I have been told by experienced varsity officials not to give a preliminary signal for other fouls such as holding and pushing. Yet I see it done all the time. Is there a best practice on this?

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 03:15pm

I cannot think of one time I would not give a blocking foul when I call a foul.

You have to listen to folks around you.

I give a peliminary signal most of the time. And yes I give a signal for holding or push most of the time. Especially when it is unclear as to what happen or I have to sell the call.

Each area is different, but I for the most part recommed everyone give one at least some kind of signal at the NF level. College of course is different.

Peace

Dbyb · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 03:20pm

Rut, I do too. I think that coaches and players what to know what you're calling the foul for. Preliminary signals for blocking, pushing and holding are quite common. I see fewer preliminary signals for illegal use of the hands.

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dbyb
Rut, I do too. I think that coaches and players what to know what you're calling the foul for. Preliminary signals for blocking, pushing and holding are quite common. I see fewer preliminary signals for illegal use of the hands.

If it is obvious what they do, I might not signal anything. Especially that we do not have to birddog anymore.

Peace

Brad · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 03:50pm

The preliminary signals that you need to give are block / charge, double foul, intentional / flagrant, and technical. Everything else is optional.

As was said -- if it is an obvious foul (other than the ones listed above) there is really no reason to signal. I usually signal illegal screens as well, since those are off-ball calls which generally the rest of the gym doesn't see.

Camron Rust · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 04:24pm

I've always been taught to signal the nature of the foul at the spot...with or without birddogging. While I don't signal 100% of the time, I do most of the time if only for clarity. There are some obvious ones for which I sometimes omit the preliminary signal....and then only sometimes.

DrakeM · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 06:22pm

and as usual, "when in Rome".......

If your assigner wants prelimnary signals, then do it!

rainmaker · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 02, 2004, 07:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I cannot think of one time I would not give a blocking foul when I call a foul.

Jeff -- I agree with you about 90% of the time, but this one falls into the 10%. There is one situation where a prelim is a huge NO-NO!! I'm not feeling Socratic today (or pedantic either) so I'll just say it right out -- the double whistle. I have trained myself to hold my prelim until I look at my partner, because I'm terrible at hearing a double. So unless it's so obvious that the guy in the back row could have called it correctly, I tweet and fist, then look at partner, then prelim and birddog, if appropriate. Since I quit the automatic preliminary signal, I've not had a single blarge. Thank goodness.

zebraman · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 03, 2004, 07:59am

I don't understand why anyone in NFHS would not want a preliminary signal given. Pretty clear in the officials manual that it's to be given every time.

Z

ChuckElias · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 03, 2004, 08:41am

JMO, Z-man, but sometimes it's just not necessary. If A1 drives to the basket and is fouled in the act of shooting, does it really matter if it's a block, a push, or a "hack"? Everybody in the building knows that the shooter was fouled, and nobody cares what you call it. In those cases, I usually will just give the fist and then give a signal at the table. That's just me, and I know it's not exactly by the book, but I'm comfortable with it. If you don't need to communicate anything, then why bother? Again, that's just me.

JRutledge · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 03, 2004, 10:36am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Jeff -- I agree with you about 90% of the time, but this one falls into the 10%. There is one situation where a prelim is a huge NO-NO!! I'm not feeling Socratic today (or pedantic either) so I'll just say it right out -- the double whistle. I have trained myself to hold my prelim until I look at my partner, because I'm terrible at hearing a double. So unless it's so obvious that the guy in the back row could have called it correctly, I tweet and fist, then look at partner, then prelim and birddog, if appropriate. Since I quit the automatic preliminary signal, I've not had a single blarge. Thank goodness.

Juulie,

I am still going to give a preliminary signal when there is a double whistle. I am just not going to do it very quickly. Once we realize who is taking the call, I think you still have to signal to everyone what you have. Because if there is a difference with a block and a charge and two officials have a whistle, you still have to let everyone know what you have. But I agree you are not in a hurry. But most situations you still should signal. But for this discussion, I was not really commenting on how you give it, I still think it is required in most cases.

Peace

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 03, 2004, 10:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
I don't understand why anyone in NFHS would not want a preliminary signal given. Pretty clear in the officials manual that it's to be given every time.

Z

I agree with Chuck. If you have a one on one situation and there is clearly a foul or contact is so obvious, then there is really no reason to signal if you call a foul. I have never been told to do that in those situations.

Peace

rainmaker · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 03, 2004, 11:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I am still going to give a preliminary signal when there is a double whistle. I am just not going to do it very quickly. Once we realize who is taking the call, I think you still have to signal to everyone what you have.

I agree with this completely. I was thinking preliminary signal meant rhgt that instant. Waiting to check with partner and then signalling makes sense. In fact, it would be a little cruel to whistle, confer with partner, and then walk clear to the table before letting anyone know what you're going with. In that situation, it seems like the best thing to signal as soon as you and your partner are "of one mind."

zebraman · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 03, 2004, 11:57am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
JMO, Z-man, but sometimes it's just not necessary. If A1 drives to the basket and is fouled in the act of shooting, does it really matter if it's a block, a push, or a "hack"? Everybody in the building knows that the shooter was fouled, and nobody cares what you call it. In those cases, I usually will just give the fist and then give a signal at the table. That's just me, and I know it's not exactly by the book, but I'm comfortable with it. If you don't need to communicate anything, then why bother? Again, that's just me.

Communication
I can think of lot's of reasons, but mainly for my partners. If they're doing they're job, they weren't watching my primary. Now they know what I called. It often matters to the coaches. "Hey ref, what did your partner just call, it looked clean to me?" "He called a block coach."

At NFHS state tournaments, there is often a very, very fine line between the ability of officials. An official who fails to give a preliminary signal every time, might just give one of the evaluators a reason to make a delineation between two very good officials.

Z

ChuckElias · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Aug 03, 2004, 12:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
Communication
I can think of lot's of reasons, but mainly for my partners. If they're doing they're job, they weren't watching my primary.

They're not officiating your primary, but they see that the ball is there and you had a foul on a drive to the basket. If you don't come out with a PC signal, they also know that you're shooting FTs. That's really all they need to know, or probably care to know. You really think your partner cares if it's a push or a block?

Quote:

It often matters to the coaches. "Hey ref, what did your partner just call, it looked clean to me?"

"Coach, he got a lot better look at it than we did. I'm sure he'll tell you exactly what he had."

Quote:

At NFHS state tournaments, there is often a very, very fine line between the ability of officials. An official who fails to give a preliminary signal every time, might just give one of the evaluators a reason to make a delineation between two very good officials.

Well, since I've worked the state tournament exactly once in the 7 seasons that I've worked a full HS varsity schedule and the 3 seasons that I've worked a full college varsity schedule, I could give a flying fig about what the observers think. B/c they're not observing me!