Preliminary Signals

[zebraman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Well, since I've worked the state tournament exactly once in the 7 seasons that I've worked a full HS varsity schedule and the 3 seasons that I've worked a full college varsity schedule, I could give a flying fig about what the observers think. B/c they're not observing me!

That's fine Chuck, do what works for you. My only point was that I don't think anyone could ever fault you for doing the mechanics by the book. I can think of times when leaving out the preliminary signal could lead to confusion.

Z

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by zebraman

Communication
I can think of lot's of reasons, but mainly for my partners. If they're doing they're job, they weren't watching my primary. Now they know what I called.
It often matters to the coaches. "Hey ref, what did your partner just call, it looked clean to me?" "He called a block coach."

Z

Giving the prelim foul signal is not the same as telling your partner what happens with the ball next. In fact, I would much rather know where the ball is going, who gets it, are we shooting, rather than know *what* the foul is.

I'm not all that concernd with dealing with the coaches in this sitch.

[blindzebra]

The one point I see missing is vocalizing your call.

If you say, "Hold," "Hit," "Push," or more descriptive things like, "Body," " You got em in the head," the preliminary signal is pretty redundant.

I can see stressing a hand check, block/charge, or selling a push OOBs, but most calls don't need it.

Your voice is much more important, than a preliminary signal.

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zebraman

That's fine Chuck, do what works for you. My only point was that I don't think anyone could ever fault you for doing the mechanics by the book. I can think of times when leaving out the preliminary signal could lead to confusion.

Z

Z,

You can't go wrong following the book.

I think you can note that most college officials will have college mechanics in their bags when they hit the high school floor.

Many high school officials will not even think about Section 230.b,c,d,e,h.

They tell us to speed up these games, and eliminating some redundancies is one of our ways to decrease dead ball time.

Chuck doesn't even stop to clear a net!
Let's go!!! Ball in!!

Personally, I may give a preliminary signal 30-40% of the time.

mick

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by blindzebra
The one point I see missing is vocalizing your call.

If you say, "Hold," "Hit," "Push," or more descriptive things like, "Body," " You got em in the head," the preliminary signal is pretty redundant.

I can see stressing a hand check, block/charge, or selling a push OOBs, but most calls don't need it.

Your voice is much more important, than a preliminary signal.

Voice never replaces signals. There are often times that your voice can't be heard where a signal can almost always be seen.


Even on a 1:1 drive to the basket, some are not so obvious. What looks like a cleanly blocked shot to a coach/spectator may actually be all arm...with some body contact similar to some that you've been letting go. Is the coach going to think you're being inconsistent with the body contact since that's all he saw? A preliminary signal of "illegal use of hands" can defuse the situation before it even begeins. That tells the coach it was something different.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Voice never replaces signals. There are often times that your voice can't be heard where a signal can almost always be seen.


Even on a 1:1 drive to the basket, some are not so obvious. What looks like a cleanly blocked shot to a coach/spectator may actually be all arm...with some body contact similar to some that you've been letting go. Is the coach going to think you're being inconsistent with the body contact since that's all he saw? A preliminary signal of "illegal use of hands" can defuse the situation before it even begeins. That tells the coach it was something different.

The coach usually does the little throw the head back and spin when they don't agree with your call. They are reacting to the whistle, not your signal. You can come out with a kick signal and it won't change what the coach WANTS your call to be.

I've came out with a player control foul WITH a preliminary signal and the coach did not settle down UNTIL I reported it to the table. It is a redundant mechanic that is fast becoming obsolete.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

They're not officiating your primary, but they see that the ball is there and you had a foul on a drive to the basket. If you don't come out with a PC signal, they also know that you're shooting FTs. That's really all they need to know, or probably care to know. You really think your partner cares if it's a push or a block?

"Coach, he got a lot better look at it than we did. I'm sure he'll tell you exactly what he had."

Well, since I've worked the state tournament exactly once in the 7 seasons that I've worked a full HS varsity schedule and the 3 seasons that I've worked a full college varsity schedule, I could give a flying fig about what the observers think. B/c they're not observing me!

Here's a picture of Chuck giving his big "BLOCK!!!" prelim signal:

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]

Here's a picture of Chuck giving his big "BLOCK!!!" prelim signal:



[/B][/QUOTE]Chuck grew a little while he was in Florida. Must be the water.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by zebraman
My only point was that I don't think anyone could ever fault you for doing the mechanics by the book.

True enough, Z-man. Can't argue with that.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Here's a picture of Chuck giving his big "BLOCK!!!" prelim signal:

Are you on vacation this week? YOu've got way, way too much time on your hands!!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Here's a picture of Chuck giving his big "BLOCK!!!" prelim signal:

That's obviously not me -- he's using closed fists. My mechanics are better than that.

[tomegun]

How many people do their mechanics "by the book?" From what I've seen not many. Changing little things and letting your own personality is OK to me. I think what some are trying to say is communication is key. Whether it is a voice or a preliminary signal, I want my partners to know what I called and I want to know what they call. I couldn't really put a percentage on what I do most. If someone is going to the basket and is fouled I probably will use my voice. It is like everyone in the gym sees contact and knows what the call is. When they don't know what the call is then a prelim can come in handy. I had a college supervisor that wanted verbal communication immediately. His theory is your call has more credibility when everyone knows that you know what you have immediately. He also wanted the number of the offending player called out immediately too.
I was doing a game last night and called a foul on a kid. He asked me what he did and I told him specifically (you hit him on his right arm like this when he went to the hoop). He started to smile and I did too. I asked him "what you didn't think I knew what you did." Maybe he just thought I made the call just because it might have looked bad. It was funny. Not Ha Ha funny but funny anyway.

[mick]

Originally posted by tomegun
I had a college supervisor that wanted ... [snip]... the number of the offending player called out immediately too.

This is a good mechanic for younger/newer officials to add to their repertoire.

By verbalizing the color and number, we are imprinting information that we will need in our short jog to the foul reporting area.

mick

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by tomegun
. I think what some are trying to say is communication is key.

What's key is keeping the assignor happy. If he or she wants prelims, give 'em. If they want voice, use it. If not, don't. Pure and simple.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick

This is a good mechanic for younger/newer officials to add to their repertoire.

By verbalizing the color and number, we are imprinting information that we will need in our short jog to the foul reporting area.

I've found that to be true as well, Mick. In addition, if FTs are to be shot, I will verbalize my shooter. That way my partner can keep track of him/her for me.