Net wraps around rim revisited

[zebraman]

We've had discussions here before on whether or not to blow the whistle and stop play to unwrap the net if it wraps around the rim after a shot. Chuck E. kind of had me leaning towards the "don't stop play" philosophy even though I have always blown my whistle because that is how I was taught.

I asked a few evaluators at the WOA camp here in Washington last weekend (most of them doing HS and college) and out of the 10 I asked, only one said that there were times that he would not stop play. When I pressed him, he said he'd only stop it if the other team was trying to run off the made basket. The rest of them said to blow it dead every time. I saw it happen a few times in games during the weekend camp and it was blown dead every single time. One old-timer grumpily told me, "I've seen the ball bounce out before on a stuck net... do you want that to happen?"

So I guess I'm back to blowing my whistle on a stuck net.. around here anyway.

Z

[Mregor]

I've heard both camps on this. I've had it pointed out to me that there is no rule support for blowing the ball dead. If the bal lis already dead, yep, but not otherwise. I've been told to watch the net during warm-ups and if it gets hung often, notify the coach and ask to keep someone down there to fix it when the opportunity exists. I've also been told to low it dead right away. I guess it boils down to doing what is common in your area. I personally rarely blow it dead, If I do, I wait until that team has control if the coach is complaining about it. As a temp fix, I've heard that spray starch will stiffen it up enough to stop it from hanging up. Not sure what residue it would leave on the ball though since I've never tried it.

Mregor

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by zebraman
The rest of them said to blow it dead every time. I saw it happen a few times in games during the weekend camp and it was blown dead every single time. One old-timer grumpily told me, "I've seen the ball bounce out before on a stuck net... do you want that to happen?"

Z, you do what you're told to do by the people that you want to impress. But as I've said before, in 25 years of watching, playing and officiating basketball, I have seen the ball pop out b/c of a stuck net exactly one time, and it wasn't even in a game. It was in practice as a result of a "prank".

It's never going to happen. If that's the rationale for stopping the game clock every time the net flips up, it's a huge waste of time.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by ChuckElias


It's never going to happen. If that's the rationale for stopping the game clock every time the net flips up, it's a huge waste of time.

Rarely, but not never. I've seen it once and so has that "old timer" evaluator. I do see your point Chuck, but all it takes is for one hoop to not go through in a crucial time and you're in it deep. Since it isn't addressed in the book, we just have to do what works for each of us.

Z

[WestPAref]

During warmups I'll watch for a net that has a tendency to wrap around the rim. If the net can not be replaced before tip, both coaches are notified of the situation and a warning that play will not be stopped to fix a wrapped net. Obviously, if we have a dead ball the net can be unwrapped.

[Brad]

Originally posted by Mregor
I've had it pointed out to me that there is no rule support for blowing the ball dead. If the bal lis already dead, yep, but not otherwise.

Since the ball is dead on every made basket, I would say that this supports stopping play to fix the net

[JugglingReferee]

In 9 years of reffing bb, I have only seen the net fixed after a FT that isn't the last attempt.

We just don't do that here in the GWN.

[ref18]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee


We just don't do that here in the GWN.

I assume that GWN means Great White North, and if its a dead ball with a stopped clock, and I'm underneath the basket with the ball, I will fix the net.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Brad

Since the ball is dead on every made basket, I would say that this supports stopping play to fix the net

The statement should probably be amended to read that you only stop play to fix the net when the ball is dead AND the clock is stopped. I agree with Chuck on the non-stop procedure; it's also the same procedure that we instruct our officials to use. I think that the logical way to do it should be that the local or regional association or governing body should lay down the procedure that they want to be uniformly used by all of the officials in their area- no matter what procedure they may decide is the best. I think that the key is to get everybody handling it the same way.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

It is late at night, I do not have any of my rules books in front of me because I am already packed to leave on Friday for the YBOA Boys' Nationals in Lakeland, Florida, and I intend to go to bed as soon as I make my post.


1) The NCAA addressed this problem a few years ago. I cannot remember off hand which school year, other than to say that the NCAA issued an in-season bulletin detailing the protocol that was to followed for such a situation.

2) Prior to the NCAA in-season bulletin, both the NFHS and NCAA followed the same interpretation. And here is where the interpretation gets murky. I have only antecdotal information from two sources: A rules interpreter from Florida, and arules interpreter from Canada.
While officiating in the YBOA Girls' Nationals in Orlando, Florida, in July 1993, I stopped the game to fix the net. A local rules interpreter told me that was wrong. I asked him what was the correct procedure. He told me that the FloridaHSAA had received an interpretaion from the NFHS that the net should not be fixed until the first naturally occuring dead ball, stopped clock situation.
While attending the 1993 IAABO Fall Rules Interpreters Conference I posed the question (including the information that was giving to me by the Florida rules interpreter) to a group of fellow interpreters at lunch one day. A rules interpreter from Canada told me that the NBCUSC (National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada, the predessor the NFHS and NCAA rules committees) had issued an interpretaion over 35 years ago that was identical to the information that was giving to me by the Florida intepreter.

As I stated my information is only antecdotal and about the time that the NCAA made its in-season interpretation, I tried to get Mary Struckhoff do an investigation of the NFHS archives to clarify this situation, but nothing ever came of it. And that is where it stands today.

I suppose that this BALD, OLD GEEZER (please read the aaargh! thread) should write to Mary next month and see if she will try to clarify this situation.

Good night everyone. Have a nice weekend.

MTD, Sr.

[Robmoz]

Well, I have had a ball bounce OUT of a stuck net TWICE just this past season (separate games)! The first time I followed the protocol for waiting for the first natural dead ball opportunity. The second, I made a judgement that the "stuck" was not too stuck and would not be a problem and let the play continue....sure enough a fast break back down to the stuck net resulted in a jumper bouncing out. Luckily, it was not at a crucial, game changing point of play.

Sometimes the facilities do not have top quality equipment including nets (avoiding discussion on budgets or poor school districts, etc.). Heck, I have even had a game with no nets at the HS level for the first quarter and was instructed to start the game while the AD ran over to another school to grab some replacements.

Suffice to say that it can happen and does happen. To me once was a fluke, but twice was too many. My partners and I now make it a point to discuss in pregame that a stuck net will yield a whistle.

[Camron Rust]

I stop the game to fix a net everytime when the action permits. It nearly always occurs in conjunction with a made basket (causing a dead ball).

The rules are quite clear that the net is supposed to be suspended below the ring. To not be properly suspended yields a potential advantage to the team defending that basket.

A parallel but more extreme example...

Player A1 dunks the ball over B1 and, due to safety, hangs onto the rim until B1 has cleared away. Unfortunately, the breakaway rim doesn't return to level. Sure, A may still be able make a basket, perhaps most of the time. But, would you not stop the game to get it fixed.

I don't see how the net is any different. The court/equipment is not in the required condition.

It's too bad if team B wanted a fast break. You don't always get what you want.

[Ron Pilo]

Zman- Did you ask me? Wha did you think of the camp? clinicians? classroom? etc.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Player A1 dunks the ball over B1 and, due to safety, hangs onto the rim until B1 has cleared away. Unfortunately, the breakaway rim doesn't return to level. Sure, A may still be able make a basket, perhaps most of the time. But, would you not stop the game to get it fixed.

I don't see how the net is any different. The court/equipment is not in the required condition.

You may be right that fixing the net is the proper thing to do, but I DO see how it's a lot different from a bent rim. Sheez, that'll affect shots A LOT more than a stuck net.

[bigwhistle]

If Team A caused the net to stick by scoring in the basket, then when they get the ball back they can request to have the situation fixed. Otherwise, they can continue to play the game.

Many times stopping to fix the net gives the team now on defense an added advantage to set the press up.

My take is play on.