acting up?

[oatmealqueen]

I've got this running debate with a few association members who insist that it's ok to make a little noise towards the officials, from the stands, at their daughter/sons games.
My argument about "being held to a higher standard", and "they should know better because they've been there", pretty much falls on deaf ears.
This is one of my major pet peeves.
Generally, in my area, everyone knows most of the officials. People know us, and we may not know them, but once we don the stripes (or other uniform), we must act accordingly at all times.
Any suggestions on how to get through to these fanboy/refs?
barb

[Jurassic Referee]

Barb, at the start of each year, our association hands out a "code of ethics" to all of our officials. Prominently displayed on that code is the following point:
-"Do NOT criticize your fellow officials with fans, coaches, players, other officials,etc. It is completely unprofessional. It is expected that every official will support and help their fellow officials at all time".

Now, you know and I know that that isn't gonna stop some officials from engaging in the back-stabbing and jealousy. You're always gonna have some of that, along with the local politics. I think that you can try to keep it to a minimum though, imo. Having a "code of ethics" does allow the executive to do something about the backstabbing if it is brought to their attention. Our members know that their executive doesn't like it because it makes all of us look bad, and that their executive won't put up with it. I think that it has to come from the top down in your association if it a problem and they are serious about minimizing that problem.

[Mark Padgett]

There's a difference between "teasing" a fellow ref from the stands and engaging in the kind of ridiculous ranting usually practiced by the great unwashed.

I don't mind the good-natured teasing - in fact, I enjoy it as long as it is clever and/or funny - but if another ref started to criticize me from the stands, he or she is toast.

[oatmealqueen]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Barb, at the start of each year, our association hands out a "code of ethics" to all of our officials. Prominently displayed on that code is the following point:
-"Do NOT criticize your fellow officials with fans, coaches, players, other officials,etc. It is completely unprofessional. It is expected that every official will support and help their fellow officials at all time".

Now, you know and I know that that isn't gonna stop some officials from engaging in the back-stabbing and jealousy. You're always gonna have some of that, along with the local politics. I think that you can try to keep it to a minimum though, imo. Having a "code of ethics" does allow the executive to do something about the backstabbing if it is brought to their attention. Our members know that their executive doesn't like it because it makes all of us look bad, and that their executive won't put up with it. I think that it has to come from the top down in your association if it a problem and they are serious about minimizing that problem.

We are working on a revised "code" right now, and the formation of a sub group to look into ethics violations of all types, within our assoc.
Your idea is a good one.
barb

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by oatmealqueen
[/B]

We are working on a revised "code" right now, and the formation of a sub group to look into ethics violations of all types, within our assoc.
[/B][/QUOTE]One of the things that we did with the "code of ethics" that we issued was to also issue along with it the penalties that could be applied by the executive for violations of that code. Iow, we spelled out the fact the the executive had the right to fine, suspend or even get rid of an official for repeated or bad violations if we wanted to. That was at the suggestion of one of our members who was a lawyer. He said that we needed to spell everything out so that all our members knew where they stood and what penalties they could possibly face, just in case a disgruntled member who had been disciplined decided later that he wanted to try and get back at us by suing. It's called "CYA".

[Snake~eyes]

It is unacceptable to pulicly disagree with a fellow official. Anyone who does that is a total *******, I wouldn't even be afraid to address a situation at the next meeting. Secondly if it was allowed and I really wanted to stoop down to their level I'd get their schedule and go to all of their games. To me officials are suppose to stick together, there's only two/three out on the court at any given time, we don't need a fellow official ganging up on us with a bunch of ignorant fans. You either need to be an official or a fan, you can't be both. If you see a mistake, keep it to yourself and discuss it with them privately at another time. Also if fans know you're a ref and they ask you a question just tell them that the other official has a better view, no one can argue that.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
It is unacceptable to pulicly disagree with a fellow official. Anyone who does that is a total *******,

Jeez, first TravelingMan and now Snake-eyes. Is today "National Over-reaction Day"? Come on, guys. You're an a-hole if you acknowledge that your brother official got a call wrong? Wow. I guess that's unforgiveable, too.

I'm not condoning ranting at or criticizing an official on the floor. But if you're in the front row and see the shooter's foot clearly behind the 3-point line, and the official is too lazy to get an angle and calls it a 2, are you going to lie to people who ask you and say that it was a 2? Come on. You say, "He got stuck with a bad angle, and couldn't see the line, so he didn't want to guess. But I agree with you, he was behind the line."

Again, disagreement can be done respectfully; but obviously, I would agree that it's totally wrong to rip an official with the fans.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Jeez, first TravelingMan and now Snake-eyes. Is today "National Over-reaction Day"? Come on, guys. You're an a-hole if you acknowledge that your brother official got a call wrong? Wow. I guess that's unforgiveable, too.

I'm not condoning ranting at or criticizing an official on the floor. But if you're in the front row and see the shooter's foot clearly behind the 3-point line, and the official is too lazy to get an angle and calls it a 2, are you going to lie to people who ask you and say that it was a 2? Come on. You say, "He got stuck with a bad angle, and couldn't see the line, so he didn't want to guess. But I agree with you, he was behind the line."

Again, disagreement can be done respectfully; but obviously, I would agree that it's totally wrong to rip an official with the fans.

Not exactly what I was referring to, I'm talking about yelling at the official, and starting the disagreement. And personally if someone asked me that question I would say "He's got the better angle" And I wasn't even talking about that, I work my *** out on the court, if I miss/botch a call(which does and will happen) I don't need some *** yelling at me.

[Mark Padgett]

Guys - read the original post. We're not talking about an official who is watching a game being asked a question in the stands by someone. We're talking about an official on the floor being yelled at by a fellow official from the stands during a game. Apples and oranges. In this case, the orange deserves peeling, grating and squeezing into pulp.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Not exactly what I was referring to, I'm talking about yelling at the official, and starting the disagreement.

I understand what you were talking about, but what you said was that any official who disagrees with the official on the floor is an A-hole. And that's a major league over-reaction. I'm just trying to tone down the rhetoric a bit.

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Guys - read the original post. We're not talking about an official who is watching a game being asked a question in the stands by someone. We're talking about an official on the floor being yelled at by a fellow official from the stands during a game. Apples and oranges.

I understand that Mark. Just trying to tone things down a bit.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I understand what you were talking about, but what you said was that any official who disagrees with the official on the floor is an A-hole. And that's a major league over-reaction. I'm just trying to tone down the rhetoric a bit.

I understand that Mark. Just trying to tone things down a bit.

I think you took it out of context, either that or I just wasn't clear. I'm talking about referees who would yell out "bad call ref", I'm not referring to people asking questions. I'm talking about a ref who acts like a fan and sounds like a moron by yelling at us.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
I think you took it out of context, either that or I just wasn't clear. I'm talking about referees who would yell out "bad call ref", I'm not referring to people asking questions. I'm talking about a ref who acts like a fan and sounds like a moron by yelling at us.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, Snake. I did not take your post out of context, nor were you at all unclear. You wrote

It is unacceptable to pulicly disagree with a fellow official. Anyone who does that is a total *******

You didn't say it's unacceptable to publicly berate a fellow official. You didn't say it's unacceptable to denigrate a fellow official. You said it's unacceptable to disagree!!!! Disagreeing makes you an A-hole! Who knew?!?!

Again, I understand that's not the kind of disagreement you were talking about. But you made this over-reaching overstatement and I thought it was unnecessary. Like saying it's "unforgiveable" to make some coaching move.

And again, all I'm trying to do is to point out (and hopefully reduce) some of the knee-jerk hyberbole and over-reaction that has crept in since "ballpunk" dropped by.

If you think I'm being over-sensitive, so be it. I'll let it go now.

[BktBallRef]

Good grief, guys.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Good grief, guys.

What? I said I'd let it go. Don't be such an A-hole, Tony!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

What? I said I'd let it go. Don't be such an A-hole, Tony!

Yep, three DeNucci type posts. Yer lettin' go alright.