Oh, I thought Nevada had this happen in a game. I know Nevada and he is good with the rules. I will not say he is a "rules guy" because over time others have given that term the meaning of someone who only knows the rules but can't apply them as well. I think it should be a compliment when an official thinks another official knows the rules.

I know it is in the case book, but the only way I would ever call a multiple foul is if a player got blasted (deserving an intentional) by two players at the same time. Any other time... nope dont think so... Too difficult to explain, administer, and I think anyone in my association ever called one they would be relegated to 9th grade ball forever

I used to think that the multiple foul should not be called but last night made me think differently.

- A1 was driving along the endline
- A1 picked up his dribble to start a shot
- B1 hacked his arm (which is when I blew my whistle)
- A1 then continued with his shot and while in the air (with the ball still in his hands) B2 fouled him to the point that he couldn't get the shot off.

I decided to just call the first foul and we proceeded to administer 2 free throws. After thinking about it last night I figured that I should have called a false multiple foul because he could have made the shot and then had one FT attempt (Max: 3pts) if B2 didn't foul him. Because I did not call the false multiple foul I am penalizing the offense with only 2 FTs (Max: 2pts). Of course by calling the false multiple I'm giving the offense one extra possible point (Max: 4pts).

I agree with Nevadaref by voting not to ignore that second foul.

I've had multiple fouls happen before when a player went up for a shot and opponents on both sides hit the shooters left and right arm at the same exact time. I handled that situation by just picking one of the two players and only calling one foul. I don't see the reason in giving the shooter 4 FT in that situation, but I do in the false multiple situation.

Rather than posting my own thoughts on these calls, let me suggest an exercise for everyone on this thread:

1) Watch as many NCAA games on TV this upcoming season as possible.

2) Take note every time a false double or false multiple foul is called in these games.

3) Strive to call that many in your games the next season.

:)

What you described is a multiple foul, not a false multiple.
A false multiple would be a foul by B1, non-shooting, B2 then fouls A3 before the throw in ends.

Blindzebra,
Check out Nevada's reference to the case book play on page two of this thread. It is a false multiple, by rule. 4 shots.

Brad, am I missing something here? False double fouls and false multiple fouls happen all the time in NCAA and high school games. They're just a normal, everyday call, and aren't that special.

Examples are:
1) Foul by B1. Before the free throw(s) for the foul or the throw-in after the free throws are over and the clock has started, an A player commits a foul(personal or technical). This is a false double foul.
2) Foul by B1. Before the free throw(s) for the foul or the throw-in after the free throws are over and the clock is started, another B player commits a foul(personal or technical). This is a false multiple foul.

Fairly common,imo. You don't see double fouls or (certainly) multiple fouls very often though.

Those examples are not the play that we are discussing.

How many times have you seen two different, opposing fouls called on the same play to the basket?!?

Your post referred to how often that you see false double or false multiple fouls in NCAA games. It didn't differentiate as to the type of false double or multiple foul. You may not see a certain, specific example of the one mentioned in this thread that often, but generic false double and false multiple fouls are fairly common in NCAA or NFHS games. Any time that someone from either team commits a foul along the lane line during a free throw, you have either a false double or a false multiple foul. That was my point.

To answer your question though, in 45 years I've never seen a false multiple foul called that consisted of 2 personal fouls by teammates on an airborne shooter, and I've seen one multiple foul called on 2 teammates fouling an opposing player at the same time. I thought that the multiple foul was a good call (my partner made it) because it looked like the 2 defenders deliberately went after a dribbler and both made solid contact on him at the same time.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jul 13th, 2004 at 04:16 PM]

They really need to change that, because it is wrong.

How is there a difference between getting hit BAM-BAM versus
BAM--BAM? The ball is still live in both cases. You could have two hard hits on the shooter in the first case play for one shot each, but you get two shots each in the second where you may have less contact?

It also is awarding FOUR FTs on a missed 3pt shot in the first case, and if I'm reading it correctly, each foul carries it's own penalty, you could shoot SIX FTs on a missed 3pt shot under a false multiple.

No wonder it never gets called.:D

Also, false multiples are never only 4 shots -- you are going to shoot 6 shots total.

<small><i>The last two for the tech you call on the coach after he goes ballistic on you!</i></small>

I understand your reason Brad for not calling a false multiple (in my example), which is b/c it is not commonly called. My thinking was that if a player gets fouled and then tries to complete the play than that player should have the same rights to finishing his shot as he did prior to the first foul.

The best way to avoid my situation is to let the play develop and then call the foul. When I blew my whistle on the first foul, I was committed to making that call. After my first whistle another foul happened that directly effected the shooter's attempt at scoring a goal. I felt that I should have called that second foul for that reason. I usually let the play develop but B1 smacked A1's arm pretty hard so that's why I called it right away.

I guess this all comes down to the individual referee's preference or how their assigner/association wants them to call it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By the way just because a multiple doesn't happen all the time for you shouldn't mean that my girl can't enjoy it when it does. I guess for Brad's significant other it would be a false multiple. :D

Very well stated! You also might have to call the ambulance when the coach has a heart attack!


Alright I'll bite, what does your website stand for? :confused:

It's not that I don't want to call it because it doesn't get called very often. Plenty of things don't get called often, but need to be called when they happen -- intentional / flagrant fouls, etc.

I don't want to call it because it is #23 of <a href="http://shop.officiating.com/x/product/51ways">51 Ways to Ruin a Baseball Game</a> -- "Make an unusual call on a routine play"

(Yes, I realize that we are talking basketball, not baseball, but MANY of the 51 Ways equally apply to all sports!)

Why do this to yourself? Call the foul and put the guy on the line. NO coach, fan, or player is going to even THINK that two fouls should be called. Everyone will be happy and there will be no protest and the game will go on without issue. Don't put yourself in a bad situation just so that you can be "right" according to a super-analytical interpretation of the rules.

<hr>
As far as the website, I assume that you are asking about batt.cc? The cc stands for Cocos Islands, which are located in Asia near Indonesia. (Each country in the world has its own two-letter top-level domain -- the US's is .us)

<img src="http://www.cocos-tourism.cc/images/location/lloc.gif">

I got the batt.cc because the .com and .net and .org were taken.

You don't have to live in the Cocos Islands to use .cc, but judging by this photo I might want to!

<img src="http://www.cocos-tourism.cc/images/lpic0.gif">

Actually I was wondering why the only thing on the website was "BATT.CC" I thought maybe it was the new thing in web design ..... simplicity :)

I figured it stood for Brad Against Tantrums That Coaches Cause
or Brad Against Technicals That Coaches Create
or something along that line. It's hard to come up with something with 2 Ts & 2 Cs next to each other :)