Both Players are in Control of Ball = Foul or Jumpball?

[pljson]

I've never gotten a definitive response either way. Here's the scenario:

Offensive player is dribbling with his back turned to the defender. Offensive player then picks up the dribble. While attempting to pass and with his back still turned, the defender proceeds to grab the ball from behind and pin it against the body (stomach/chest) of the offensive player.

Is this a foul or jumpball/choose situation?

Thanks for the help.

PJ

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by pljson
I've never gotten a definitive response either way. Here's the scenario:

Offensive player is dribbling with his back turned to the defender. Offensive player then picks up the dribble. While attempting to pass and with his back still turned, the defender proceeds to grab the ball from behind and pin it against the body (stomach/chest) of the offensive player.

Is this a foul or jumpball/choose situation?

Thanks for the help.

PJ

Ask yourself, is it possible to wrap your arms around someone from behind, without causing contact?

If the ball is above A1's head, held ball. If the tie up is from the front, A1 and B1 face to face, held ball.

From behind with B1 "hugging" A1 to get the ball, I have a foul.

[pljson]

I've heard both sides of the argument. I'm hoping to get the official call on whether it's a foul or not.

I believe you can "hug" (read: pin) the ball against the offensive player while not fouling.

Here's what I want to know:

Is it a cut and dry (automatic) foul every single time?

Or

Do you have to determine IF a foul is committed?

What's the call if it happens in the NBA.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by pljson
I've heard both sides of the argument. I'm hoping to get the official call on whether it's a foul or not.

I believe you can "hug" (read: pin) the ball against the offensive player while not fouling.

Here's what I want to know:

Is it a cut and dry (automatic) foul every single time?

Or

Do you have to determine IF a foul is committed?

What's the call if it happens in the NBA.

Sometimes the defense player can get a hand on the ball from behind or from the side without contact & then contact occurs when the offense pulls the ball in to protect it. So we're left with B1's hand (note 1 hand, not 2) and A1's hands all firmly holding the ball, and B1's arm kinda wrapped around A1.

Sounds like a held ball to me.

But if B1 wraps both his arms around A1 to secure the ball it's a foul pretty much always.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by pljson
I've heard both sides of the argument. I'm hoping to get the official call on whether it's a foul or not.

I believe you can "hug" (read: pin) the ball against the offensive player while not fouling.

Here's what I want to know:

Is it a cut and dry (automatic) foul every single time?

Or

Do you have to determine IF a foul is committed?

What's the call if it happens in the NBA.

Yes, anything is possible. You may have a player with freakishly long and flexible arms that may pull off the play as described, but it is unlikely.

I've watched some officials working frosh/JV girls, while waiting for my varsity game. We are on the 20th held ball in the first half and the game is on pace to be 3 hours long. My advice at halftime, if the tie up ain't on the floor during a loose ball, it had better be from the front if the players are upright.

A kid coming across the arms from the side or hugging from behind is more than likely contacting the player with the ball. Add that the movement after you get four hands on the ball, from those defensive positions, causes contact that looks illegal by the defender and everyone "sees" a foul; the game will be better served by calling a foul and not a held ball.

That is unless you want 60 held balls.

[pljson]

Thanks all for your help.