Irregularity or Flagrant

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
[/B]

1) Any non-contact foul, whether during a live or dead ball, is a technical.

2) Only personal fouls can be called intentional. [/B][/QUOTE]
1) One of the definitions of fighting is "an attempt to strike, punch or kick....". This is a case where, if this happened during a live ball, you could have a flagrant personal foul without contact.

2) Technical fouls can be intentional also, as per Rule 4-19-3.

[lrpalmer3]

I can't wait to give someone the baseball style heave-ho, you're outta here signal. I hope it happens to a Home player and all the fans booo me. I always keep track of who has technicals so I can send 'em packing if they come at me with some nonsense. I practice that almost as much as my "blocking-count the bucket" call and the "player control" call.

[ref18]

a word of advice, don't give the baseball style ejection signal. You're just asking for trouble with that. There is no prescribed signal for an ejection, so don't use one. I got in crap for saying "number 23, that's 5 you're gone" if i gave the baseball type signal i don't think i'd be on the court anymore.

Also, don't go out of your way to eject people. I feel i may have gone overboard (3 this season, althought all were deserving of what they got), but I never practise throwing anyone out, and you shouldn't either. Its the last resort.

After an ejection you inform the coach then the player, or just the coach if he's ejected, then you go to your disqualified player posistions and wait for the coach to leave, or for 30-seconds to replace the player.


Also, never have a big smile on your face when giving out the disqualifying foul.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by cingram
Frankly does anyone see why there is a flagrant personal foul?

Yes. It's flagrant b/c it's of a savage or vicious nature. And it's personal b/c it involved contact during a live ball.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Any non-contact foul, whether during a live or dead ball, is a technical.

2) Only personal fouls can be called intentional. [/B]

1) One of the definitions of fighting is "an attempt to strike, punch or kick....". This is a case where, if this happened during a live ball, you could have a flagrant personal foul without contact.

2) Technical fouls can be intentional also, as per Rule 4-19-3. [/B][/QUOTE]

JR,
I would still call #1 a flagrant technical for fighting because it is a non-contact foul. I agree with you on #2. Obviously, contact during a dead ball which is deemed intentional, but not flagrant, would be an intentional technical foul.
Mark,
There is one exception which I know of to what you wrote in your #1. There is a case book play (3.3.6 Sit B) in which a bleeding player wipes his blood on an opponent in order to cause him to have to leave the game too. This certainly involves contact, but the ruling says that it is an unsporting technical foul.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Jun 6th, 2004 at 10:50 PM]

[lrpalmer3]

Originally posted by ref18
a word of advice, don't give the baseball style ejection signal. You're just asking for trouble with that. There is no prescribed signal for an ejection, so don't use one.

Also, don't go out of your way to eject people.

I'm talking about the scenario when a coach with one T throws a chair out on the court to show objection to a call. It may happen once in my life (an ejection of that sort) but I'll be ready.

Originally posted by lrpalmer3

I'm talking about the scenario when a coach with one T throws a chair out on the court to show objection to a call. It may happen once in my life (an ejection of that sort) but I'll be ready.

If he already has one T and you are giving him a second you don't need to 'Heave Ho' him - He has 2 T's and has a one way ticket out of the gym. The only time that I would give the Heave Ho is when someone has received a Flagrant foul (personal or Technical). If it was their second T I likely wouldn't do it.

[Mark Dexter]

My mechanic on a second technical or a flagrant foul - give the signal for the foul (often a T), then I give the Bobby Valentine 'point 'em to the door' signal.

Depending on the situation, I might add in a "you're gone" or something similar.

[Mregor]

Originally posted by brandan89
I am sitting here studying my manual and under After approval of score it says : "Report any irregularity or flagrant situation to the state association office as soon as possible."

Can you tell me what a flagrant situation is and give me some examples?

It depends on what your association or state wants and each is different. In mine, we have to report whenever the coach loses coaching box priveledges or when any coach, player, or fan is ejected.

Mregor

[dblref]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Is it a flagrant T or a flagrant foul? Dead ball is T, live ball is foul. Either way, the result is two shots and ball team that foul was committed against, ejection of player that committed foul.

I am not your mechanics guru, but I think we have ahd this discussion before and there is no real mechanic for the flagrant. And I have yet to have a flagrant called in any game I have coached, girls or boys. Seen a couple I thought could have been called.

Knock wood! Don't really want to be part of a game where that stuff starts happening.

Had one of these on Saturday in girls age 11 AAU game. Two players going for the loose ball on the floor, white 43 winds up with it and blue 12 lands on top of her, holding her down. Whistle on blue 12. Both players are then sitting side by side with blue 12 to the left of and slightly behind white 43. White 43 looks back at blue 12, looks at me, looks back again at blue 12, looks back at blue 12 again and gives her an elbow to the face. Ejection time! Coach's comment to me was: "she only did that to get even for being fouled". I couldn't believe that comment.

[Adam]

Cingram,

There is a difference in the penalties of a flagrant personal and a flagrant technical. The throwin spot on a flagrant personal is the spot nearest the foul, the throwin spot for a flagrant T is the midcourt line.

Disclaimer: I'm on deployment to remote areas of Utah, and I didn't bring my rules book, so I'll expect correction if I'm wrong.

Adam

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Cingram,

There is a difference in the penalties of a flagrant personal and a flagrant technical. The throwin spot on a flagrant personal is the spot nearest the foul, the throwin spot for a flagrant T is the midcourt line.

Disclaimer: I'm on deployment to remote areas of Utah, and I didn't bring my rules book, so I'll expect correction if I'm wrong.

Adam

... and the player who was fouled must shoot the free throws for the personal foul, while any member of the offended team may attempt those for the technical.