Irregularity or Flagrant

[brandan89]

I am sitting here studying my manual and under After approval of score it says : "Report any irregularity or flagrant situation to the state association office as soon as possible."

Can you tell me what a flagrant situation is and give me some examples?

[Hawks Coach]

Lots of examples. Fighting. Grabbing an airborne player, flipping them upside down and slamming them down on their head. Giving a violent elbow to the head of a player when their back is turned and you think you can get away with it. Forearm to the face of a player who just pushed off to get space.

Basically, any violent foul (during live or dead ball) with intent to injure.

[brandan89]

And what is the mechanic for it? Is it the whistle and a clinched fist?

[Hawks Coach]

Is it a flagrant T or a flagrant foul? Dead ball is T, live ball is foul. Either way, the result is two shots and ball team that foul was committed against, ejection of player that committed foul.

I am not your mechanics guru, but I think we have ahd this discussion before and there is no real mechanic for the flagrant. And I have yet to have a flagrant called in any game I have coached, girls or boys. Seen a couple I thought could have been called.

Knock wood! Don't really want to be part of a game where that stuff starts happening.

Originally posted by brandan89
And what is the mechanic for it? Is it the whistle and a clinched fist?

A flagrent is a Flagrent Technical.

Some people come straight out with the T - but I tend to Fist then do the T (more from habit I guess). Make sure you use your voice to specify that it is a flagrent T (not just a regular T) as they get the boot.

I did toss a University Rec player once giving the old Heave-Ho (baseball style) (tweet - Technical Foul (giving the T), you are out of here (Heave-Ho)).

[Edited by cingram on Jun 4th, 2004 at 03:43 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by cingram

A flagarent is a Flagarent Technical.

Some people come straight out with the T - but I tend to Fist then do the T (more from habit I guess). Make sure you use your voice to specify that it is a flagarent T (not just a regular T) as they get the boot.

I did toss a University Rec player once giving the old Heave-Ho (baseball style) (tweet - Technical Foul (giving the T), you are out of here (Heave-Ho)).

Flagrant fouls can be either personal or technical. if the foul occurs while the ball is live, it is a flagrant personal foul. If the act occurs when the ball is dead, it's a flagrant technical foul.

[Hawks Coach]

I thought I said that already

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Flagrant fouls can be either personal or technical. if the foul occurs while the ball is live, it is a flagrant personal foul. If the act occurs when the ball is dead, it's a flagrant technical foul.

Thanks JR. I stand corrected. I gotta start carrying my books with me.

How would you signal the Flagrent personal foul? Using the Intentional signal? voice the "flagrent"... or some other way.

The player I did toss was during a dead ball (he didn't like the call that I was reporting to the table). So I guess I got that one right.

[Edited by cingram on Jun 4th, 2004 at 03:44 PM]

[Hawks Coach]

Good point about the T you issued. Another way to get a flagrant is to be especially profuse in profanity or expressive in your dissent. It isn't just violent acts that get you the auto boot.

If you ask really nicely, you can be kicked out on the first T.

[BktBallRef]

cingram, it's flagrant, f-l-a-g-r-a-n-t, not flagarent.

Originally posted by BktBallRef
cingram, it's flagrant, f-l-a-g-r-a-n-t, not flagarent.

Quite sorry, I won't make that mistake again.

[ref18]

Any ejection of a coach, or ejection of a player for reasons beyond 5 fouls gets noted and reported.

Also under irregular situations, a wierd injury would be reported i.e. player getting hit in the head with the ball off the rebound and getting knocked unconcious.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by cingram

How would you signal the Flagrent personal foul? Using the Intentional signal? voice the "flagrent"... or some other way.

[/B]

Cingram, I think that I need to clarify one thing. The live ball/dead ball criteria to differentiate between flagrant personal and technical fouls is a fairly accurate rule of thumb, but there are exceptions however. The most common one is a player or coach swearing at another player or an official during a live ball. That one is a flagrant technical foul; it can't be a flagrant personal foul because there was no contact involved. Personally, I don't think that it's a biggie if you do happen to call one the other. The result is the same- disqualification plus 2 shots & the ball to the non-offending team.

As for the signal for a flagrant foul, there are several different schools of thought. The "baseball heave-ho" signal is used a lot, as is just pointing to the dressing room. Some trainers advocate making no gesture at all, but simply tell the offender that he's outa there.I guess that it's just personal preference, unless whoever's assigning you wants it done a particular way.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Cingram, I think that I need to clarify one thing. The live ball/dead ball criteria to differentiate between flagrant personal and technical fouls is a fairly accurate rule of thumb, but there are exceptions however. [/QUOTE]

Actually, it's not a "rule of thumb". The live ball/dead ball rule is used only when you are going to call the foul because of contact. If the contact occurs during a live ball, it's a personal. If the contact occurs during a dead ball, it's a technical. Any non-contact foul, whether during a live or dead ball, is a technical.

Both personal and intentional fouls can be called flagrant, which means an ejection is involved. Only personal fouls can be called intentional.

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Cingram, I think that I need to clarify one thing. The live ball/dead ball criteria to differentiate between flagrant personal and technical fouls is a fairly accurate rule of thumb, but there are exceptions however. The most common one is a player or coach swearing at another player or an official during a live ball. That one is a flagrant technical foul; it can't be a flagrant personal foul because there was no contact involved. Personally, I don't think that it's a biggie if you do happen to call one the other. The result is the same- disqualification plus 2 shots & the ball to the non-offending team.

As for the signal for a flagrant foul, there are several different schools of thought. The "baseball heave-ho" signal is used a lot, as is just pointing to the dressing room. Some trainers advocate making no gesture at all, but simply tell the offender that he's outa there.I guess that it's just personal preference, unless whoever's assigning you wants it done a particular way.[/B]

Thanks JR.

In my 8 years of reffing (4 with a board) I've only tossed one person - and that was 5 years ago.

I'd be kinda interesting trying to give a flagrant personal foul to a coach...

Frankly does anyone see why there is a flagrant personal foul? If it is flagrant why not make it a flagrant technical? They are getting the boot anyways because of what they did.