T'ed Up?

[Kaliix]

Last year I coached a middle school girls basketball team. Considering what I had to work with, we did well and won more than we lost.

End of the season comes and we go to play in a local tournament. We are playing against one of the teams that eventually made the finals and I could tell from warm ups that we were going to be lucky to keep this one close.

Game starts, first possesion for the other team and my best and tallest player picks up a questionable foul, one of those that could be called but one I have seen let go many times.

Second free throw of the shooting foul is missed, players going for the rebound and my best player gets called for a cheap contact foul on the rebound. I was just as surprised as she was that a foul was called.

As the game progresses, I can sense that we are just not getting any calls. My kids are getting knocked around and get nothing. A little contact the other way and they get a whistle. The parents are getting frustrated because of it.

Now, one of my kids spots up for jump shot, defender goes right at her and "blocks" the shot. I put blocks in quotes because it happened at the other end of the floor and I could clearly hear the slap of flesh sound and see that she was fouled. No call!

Immediately I'm now really aggravated and I yell at the ref, "Come on! Call 'em both ways!!"

So what does he do, he T's me up!

For that?!?!

Does that sound like something that warrants a technical?

I was working the refs a little before hand, but nothing excessive and nothing worse than an "Aw, come on!" or a "Looked like some contact to me?!?"

[devdog69]

First of all, you're opinion of you not 'getting any calls' was most likely completely wrong since you and your parents are looking at the game from a biased standpoint. The call may have been missed, I'm not disputing that. If you had been whining to me about calls throughout and said something like that, it would have warranted a technical, especially in summer ball. Now, the best way to have handled the situation would probably have been to say something like "Coach, we're working hard for you and these kids out here and I need you to stick to coaching for me, please". Something to that effect would have given you a warning per se that we had heard enough of the 'aw, come on' whines.

Originally posted by Kaliix
Immediately I'm now really aggravated and I yell at the ref, "Come on! Call 'em both ways!!"

For hollaring this across the floor you betcha'.

Doing this you are delibrately questioning the calls of the official(s) in front of the whole gym. That is not something that should be let go.

[Kaliix]

You would think though, in a tournament game that the school payed money to get in, that you would atleast warn a coach first before you "T" them up, if it was an accumulation effect that was bordering on a T.

"Call 'em both ways" isn't exactly making it personal either. If I said "You suck, call 'em both ways" I would have been disappointed if I didn't get a T!

I managed to work the refs all year and not get a T, which considering my personality, is some what impressive. I think perhaps I hit a thin skinned ref.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Kaliix
You would think though, in a tournament game that the school payed money to get in, that you would atleast warn a coach first before you "T" them up, if it was an accumulation effect that was bordering on a T.

"Call 'em both ways" isn't exactly making it personal either. If I said "You suck, call 'em both ways" I would have been disappointed if I didn't get a T!

I managed to work the refs all year and not get a T, which considering my personality, is some what impressive. I think perhaps I hit a thin skinned ref.

Perhaps.

Or perhaps you hit a ref who didn't think he was ready to take crap from a middle school girl's coach.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Kaliix
You would think though, in a tournament game that the school payed money to get in, that you would atleast warn a coach first before you "T" them up, if it was an accumulation effect that was bordering on a T.

"Call 'em both ways" isn't exactly making it personal either. If I said "You suck, call 'em both ways" I would have been disappointed if I didn't get a T!

I managed to work the refs all year and not get a T, which considering my personality, is some what impressive. I think perhaps I hit a thin skinned ref.

The comment you made is either accusing the officials of cheating or asking them to cheat.

If that had been your only comment, perhaps it wouldn't have earned a T. But, in concert with the others that you seem to have made, and given the fact that it was yelled, it deserves a T. There's no requirement for a warning.

[CYO Butch]

Originally posted by Kaliix
You would think though, in a tournament game that the school payed money to get in, that you would atleast warn a coach first before you "T" them up, if it was an accumulation effect that was bordering on a T.

"Call 'em both ways" isn't exactly making it personal either. If I said "You suck, call 'em both ways" I would have been disappointed if I didn't get a T!

I managed to work the refs all year and not get a T, which considering my personality, is some what impressive. I think perhaps I hit a thin skinned ref.

As a middle school coach myself, I would say that I like what the official did. "Working the refs" is completely inappropriate at this level. It sets a VERY BAD EXAMPLE for the kids, and it reflects what I see as a misplaced set of values. The game is there for the kids. You want them to win, but you also want them to learn a whole lot of life lessons about teamwork and dedication within a set of rules - lessons that ultimately don't have much to do with basketball. Trying to influence the outcome by maniplating the only impartial people there is not the lesson I want to teach, and it is not the lesson that I like to see others teach either. Sure, coaches are often emotional people, and we can get very frustrated when things are not going our way, and sure, sometimes our emotions lead us to things that might cross the line to deserve a technical, but that line will move closer the more we complain. If you had not been on the officials all game, your complaint might have just resulted in a warning, but you brought it on yourself.

Aside from my feelings about the lesson "working the refs" gives, I think it is really self-defeating. Why would anybody think they would gain by getting an official p*ssed at them?

[Kaliix]

Well Bob, if saying calling 'em both ways is accusing them of cheating, then I guess I should get a T. I guess it's all in how you take it. It could very easily be construed as, you perhaps are not being consistent on both ends of the floor and calling contact on one team a foul and perhaps not on the other.

Considering the play that it happened on was a CLEAR FOUL, I guess I thought a warning would be in order. I heard the slap, the bench heard the slap, the fans heard the slap and nary a whistle was heard.

I guess I did deserve the T then, because at thought point I did think the other team had the refs in their pocket. I know enough to know which fouls have some judgement to them and which are no brainers.

I start to wonder when my best player is on the bench 30 seconds into the half on one borderline and one ticky tack foul. If that's the way your gonna call them, fine, call 'em that way on everyone and I won't complain. But to see the contact they let go after that, including a clear obvious foul, I don't think call 'em both ways was out of line. I've had refs give me "the look" after one protestation to many and have had them say quietly that "That one was close, but I'm trying hard, give me a break huh!" or something similar. And each time I backed off.

I guess I expected more out of tournament ref's.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Kaliix


I know enough to know which fouls have some judgement to them and which are no brainers.

Here's a blank piece of paper, go ahead and list them.

[devdog69]

Originally posted by CYO Butch

[/B]

As a middle school coach myself, I would say that I like what the official did. "Working the refs" is completely inappropriate at this level. It sets a VERY BAD EXAMPLE for the kids, and it reflects what I see as a misplaced set of values. The game is there for the kids. You want them to win, but you also want them to learn a whole lot of life lessons about teamwork and dedication within a set of rules - lessons that ultimately don't have much to do with basketball. Trying to influence the outcome by maniplating the only impartial people there is not the lesson I want to teach, and it is not the lesson that I like to see others teach either. [/B][/QUOTE]

Bravo! Now, here's someone that understands what we're all out there for.

[SMEngmann]

As an official, I always find it funny when people think that the refs are in the pocket of one of the teams. Most often, especially in tournament type games, we've never met or even heard of the participants in the game. Cheating on behalf of one team undermines why all of us have become officials in the first place. Name one person who became an official solely to help out a MS girls team win a tourney game. If that wasn't the goal of becoming an official, then why would anyone compromise everything they believe in to help win one game?

I play semi-pro baseball and we had a similar situation to the one you're describing in terms of the perception. We were on the road, and were on the short end of several close calls by the same umpire. Naturally, the guys started complaining, calling the guy a homer, even though in my opinion the guy got all the calls right. To his credit he continued to call 'em as he saw 'em and wasn't impacted by "working the ump." However, when our coach tried to question a call, he was greeted with a stop sign from across the field. This gesture was standoffish, and it fueled my team's suspicion that this ump was biased. Eventually, some bench players were ejected, but I think that it could have been avoided if the umpire simply allowed the coach to make a reasonable argument and in that way, acknowledged us in some way.

As this relates to the basketball situation, perhaps the technical could have been avoided through better communication, or at least it wouldn't have been a shock if you were acknowledged, but it seems to me that the fact that the officials tried to ignore you fueled your anger even more until it got past the breaking point. By the way you described the scenario, you probably should have received a technical for your actions earlier, but it could have possibly been avoided with better communication.

[Jim Armstrong]

Regarding the slap that you said was clearly a foul. You said it was on the opposite end of the court. Could it have been the sound of the ball being slapped? Even if it was a clear slap, was it directly on the hand with the ball in it?
The rule book says that non-intentional contact on the hand that is holding the ball is not a foul. (paraphrased) Maybe they blocked the ball, and then hit the shooters hand? Just guessing, or maybe the guy completely kicked the call as you say.

Originally posted by Kaliix
Well Bob, if saying calling 'em both ways is accusing them of cheating, then I guess I should get a T. I guess it's all in how you take it. It could very easily be construed as, you perhaps are not being consistent on both ends of the floor and calling contact on one team a foul and perhaps not on the other.

I don't see how you see this as non accusing - You are telling them that they are not being consistent - and thus are cheating.

I guess I expected more out of tournament ref's.

Sometimes I guess I expect more out of coaches...

A slapping noise is not necessarily a foul call (some of the time granted it is). If the hand is on the ball and is slapped it is not a foul (if they get the arm then it is).

Perhaps next time instead of questioning the officials ability/decision by yelling across the floor you may think - maybe he had a better angle. Better yet when you have a chance ask him politely about what he/she saw on that play.

Really - If you are polite about it (and haven't been working the refs with every call) you will most likely get a polite response back. Work with us and we'll work with you.

[Kaliix]

Dan,
If I have to list them for you, you shouldn't even be in this conversation...

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Here's a blank piece of paper, go ahead and list them.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Kaliix
Dan,
If I have to list them for you, you shouldn't even be in this conversation...

I thought so.

Dime a dozen my friend, dime a dozen.