How many on Shaq?

[mick]

Referee's question not sign of conspiracy but diligence
By David DuPree, USA TODAY
LOS ANGELES — OK, conspiracy theorists, here's the explanation.

Phil Jackson questions referee Eddie F. Rush, who caused controversy when he asked scorers about Shaquille O'Neal's foul status.
By Kevork Djansezian, AP

When referee Eddie F. Rush asked the official scorer how many fouls Shaquille O'Neal had on him during the fourth quarter of the Western Conference finals, it wasn't to make sure O'Neal wouldn't foul out, as some cynics might think, it was because there was a discrepancy between what the announcer said and what was on the scoreboard.

"He (Rush) was doing what he was supposed to do," said Stu Jackson, the NBA's senior vice president of basketball operations.

What happened, according to Jackson: O'Neal fouled Kevin Garnett as Garnett scored, cutting the Lakers' lead to 73-72 with 8:59 left in the game. The public address announcer announced that it was O'Neal's fourth foul, yet when Rush looked up at the scoreboard, it said it was his fifth. Rush went over to the scorer's table and asked how many fouls there actually were on O'Neal to clear up the discrepancy.

"Anytime there is a discrepancy, it's procedure for the referee to make sure that all information is correct," said Jackson, who attended the game.

"They're checking all of the time for discrepancies. They would do the same thing with team fouls and timeouts to make sure there are no discrepancies."

ESPN's Brent Musberger, who was doing the radio broadcast of the game, overheard Rush asking the question, and apparently not knowing the circumstances, raised the issue on the air with analyst Tim Legler as to why Rush needed to know how many fouls O'Neal had during the game. Legler called it "unusual" and said that referees shouldn't be concerned how many fouls a player has.

It became fodder Wednesday for radio sports talk shows, raising the conspiracy debate. Hue Hollins, a former NBA referee, said on the Dan Patrick Show that referees gather when a star player has five fouls to ensure the sixth is a sure foul and not a ticky-tack foul.

Doc Rivers, ESPN analyst and new coach of the Boston Celtics, dismissed the conspiracy theory, even though he hadn't heard Jackson's explanation of what happened when asked whether Rush's actions were out of the ordinary.

"It's unusual that you ask the question, but I don't think there's a conspiracy at all," Rivers said. "If it were, Lakers fans would say it was against them, at least last night. If I were the opposing coach, it wouldn't bother me at all. If I were the opposing coach and I thought Shaq got calls, it would give me something else to complain about.

"But I still, at the end of the day, would know nothing was going on," Rivers continued. "I know the officials. Like players and coaches, they have good days and bad days. But none of them are corrupt."

Contributing: Roscoe Nance

[Mark Padgett]

Didn't we already beat this to death on a thread that disappeared?

[mick]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Didn't we already beat this to death on a thread that disappeared?

Yeah, but was the ref's reason given?
I can delete this puppy.
mick

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by mick
I can delete this puppy.
mick

Yea, but don't do it too soon. Let some folks get a chance to read it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Didn't we already beat this to death on a thread that disappeared?

Damn, Padgett, gettin' grumpy in your old age?

We're still waiting to hear how many multiple fouls you called in your career.

[cford]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Damn, Padgett, gettin' grumpy in your old age?

We're still waiting to hear how many multiple fouls you called in your career.

I second that! I've been waiting to hear that since the thread dissappeared a couple of days ago.

[Danvrapp]

Originally posted by mick
The public address announcer announced that it was O'Neal's fourth foul, yet when Rush looked up at the scoreboard, it said it was his fifth. Rush went over to the scorer's table and asked how many fouls there actually were on O'Neal to clear up the discrepancy.

Wow. That's game awareness.

[BktBallRef]

Watching the game, it seemed there was confusion going back to Shaq's 4th foul, a weak call for a block against Sprewell. In any case, the TV guys discussed it being his 4th, then his thrid, then his fourth again.

[tomegun]

In reality, certain officials can call multiple fouls depending on the league, game and stature of that official. An official can get away with it but that does not mean officials do it.

I'm interested in hearing how many times this has been called too.

[mick]

Originally posted by tomegun
I'm interested in hearing how many times this has been called too.

In my first, or second year, I called a mulltiple foul on a jump-shooting 8th grader that got simultaneously sandwiched by two defenders.

I gave the shooter 4 shots.

mick

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Damn, Padgett, gettin' grumpy in your old age?

We're still waiting to hear how many multiple fouls you called in your career.

Unfortunately, I've never had a multiple........oh wait - you said multiple fouls. Never mind.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by mick

Yeah, but was the ref's reason given?
I can delete this puppy.
mick

I think it's good to have the explaination given.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by tomegun
In reality, certain officials can call multiple fouls depending on the league, game and stature of that official. An official can get away with it but that does not mean officials do it.

I'm interested in hearing how many times this has been called too.

I've never seen nor have I called a multiple foul. I have, however, seen a false multiple foul called. (Contrary to Dexter bingo predictions, I was not the one who called the foul.)

Two whistles at the same time, both for offball fouls, the crew conferenced, reported both, then administered both penalties. The bigger discussion among the evaluators and refs standing around was what would happen if one foul was the 9th and the other was the 10th (or 6th and 7th) - who shoots which; do you do 1-and-1, then 2; is the lane cleared for any of the shots; etc.?

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

I've never seen nor have I called a multiple foul. I have, however, seen a false multiple foul called. (Contrary to Dexter bingo predictions, I was not the one who called the foul.)

Two whistles at the same time, both for offball fouls, the crew conferenced, reported both, then administered both penalties. The bigger discussion among the evaluators and refs standing around was what would happen if one foul was the 9th and the other was the 10th (or 6th and 7th) - who shoots which; do you do 1-and-1, then 2; is the lane cleared for any of the shots; etc.?

I would bet that nearly every one of us who have worked more than a few games have called a false multiple foul.

The following are all false multiple foul:

A1 commits a foul. Before the ball is touched inbounds on the ensuing throwin for B, A2 fouls.

B3 commits a foul. A2 is to shoot FTs. Before someone touches the ball on the rebound of the last FT, B5 commits a foul.

B2 commits a foul. A1 is at the line shooting. Makes the first. A takes a timeout. A1 makes the 2nd. B3 commits a throwin violation. A2, during the throwin, holds the ball across the line when B2 ties it up. Arrow to B. B1 now making the throwin when B4 sets a bad screen to free up the point guard. Foul on B4.

Essentially, when you have two fouls on the same team (could be the same player even) with the same time on the game clock, they are a false multiple foul.

Just for kicks try this one on:

B2 fouls. During the FTs for A1, A2 fouls B3 (B in the bonus). Finish the FTs for A, now go to B's end. B3 shooting 2. Before the ball is touched inbounds after the FTs, B5 fouls A4. A4 now at the line when A1 fouls B3.

Summary: Fouls on B2, A2, B5, and A1 all with no time off the clock. What's that one?