Quirk in NF timeout rule?

[Mark Padgett]

In another thread, Camron posted: "Only when the ball is live are there restrictions on who can call timeout....only the team that has a player control (not team control)."

This got me to thinking (which, my wife tells me, can be very dangerous). On an inbound play, the ball becomes live when at the disposal of the inbounder. However, there is no team or player control at that point, since player control is defined as holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Also however, the defending team may not legally be granted a TO during this time.

Is this consistent with the theory that, during a live ball, only the team in player control may legally be granted a TO?

Is there a written exception to this in NF rules?

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
In another thread, Camron posted: "Only when the ball is live are there restrictions on who can call timeout....only the team that has a player control (not team control)."

This got me to thinking (which, my wife tells me, can be very dangerous). On an inbound play, the ball becomes live when at the disposal of the inbounder. However, there is no team or player control at that point, since player control is defined as holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Also however, the defending team may not legally be granted a TO during this time.

Is this consistent with the theory that, during a live ball, only the team in player control may legally be granted a TO?

Is there a written exception to this in NF rules?

5-8 ART.3 a. The ball is in control or at the DISPOSAL of a player of his/her team.

[lrpalmer3]

Don't you love it when they're this easy?

But let me ask this about the college inbound rules. First let me state some rules (please correct me if I am wrong on any of these).

1. An NCAA inbound ends when a player controls the ball.
2. A NFHS inbound ends when a player touches the ball.
3. NCAA and NFHS possession arrows are switched after the inbounds ends.

Can someone describe a play in which this makes a difference?

[Edited by lrpalmer3 on May 27th, 2004 at 02:33 PM]

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
Don't you love it when they're this easy?

It won't be, MTD will have a cone of disposability around the thrower that does not permit a time out.

[Edited by blindzebra on May 27th, 2004 at 02:36 PM]

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
Don't you love it when they're this easy?

But let me ask this about the college inbound rules. First let me state some rules (please correct me if I am wrong on any of these).

1. An NCAA inbound ends when a player controls the ball.
2. A NFHS inbound ends when a player touches the ball.
3. NCAA and NFHS possession arrows are switched after the inbounds ends.

Can someone describe a play in which this makes a difference?

[Edited by lrpalmer3 on May 27th, 2004 at 02:33 PM]

You'd be talking about the team control foul in NCAA.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by blindzebra

It won't be, MTD will have a cone of disposability around the thrower that does not permit a time out.

Actually, there's also a "cone of verticality" directly over top of the OOB line on a throw-in. This is a special "cone of verticality" though, because it's a "one-way cone of verticality". The thrower can reach through this "one-way cone of verticality", but a defensive player CANNOT reach through the exact same "one-way cone of verticality".

And so endeth today's lesson!



"There are 2 things that I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people and the French"
- Mark Padgett

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
Don't you love it when they're this easy?

But let me ask this about the college inbound rules. First let me state some rules (please correct me if I am wrong on any of these).

1. An NCAA inbound ends when a player controls the ball.
2. A NFHS inbound ends when a player touches the ball.
3. NCAA and NFHS possession arrows are switched after the inbounds ends.

Can someone describe a play in which this makes a difference?

[Edited by lrpalmer3 on May 27th, 2004 at 02:33 PM]

Yep.

Under ncaa we do not shot bonus ft's when the foul is by the team in control. Team control begins on the throw-in when the ball's at the disposal- can't shoot bonus ft's. If the throw-in ended on the tip, you could have a period of time where there is NO team control (and could shoot bonus ft's) after the ball is released on the throw-in and before the ball is controlled on the court (once again could not shoot bonus ft's). That is how the rule was read when this change was made 2 yrs ago. Last year the rule was re-worded and eliminated this case by saying the throw-in ends on a player controlling the inbounds pass. Meaning there's team control even on the tip and you don't shoot ft's on the throw-in until there's player control.

Kinda confusng...get it?

(BTW, when I say shooting ft's I mean shooting ft's on what amounts to "offensive fouls" in the above example.)

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

"There are 2 things that I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people and the French"
- Mark Padgett

Intolerance is something I will not put up with!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Intolerance is something I will not put up with!

Dan -- There's that non-U grammar again! Never end a sentence with a preposition.

Try, "Intolerance is something up with which I will not put." See?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Dan -- There's that non-U grammar again! Never end a sentence with a preposition.

Try, "Intolerance is something up with which I will not put." See?

Or alternatively....

Intolerance is something that I will not put up with, moron."

Is that better, Juulie?

So Mark, I guess my wife isn't the only one who thinks her husband actually thinking is dangerous!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
So Mark, I guess my wife isn't the only one who thinks her husband actually thinking is dangerous!

As I've mentioned before, my wife has a key chain that states "Men are like dogs - dumb but trainable"

BTW - I didn't say that stuff about the French as posted above, although it is clever. My statements about them are usually more in the vein that they're a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys.

I heard that when EuroDisney opened and they set off fireworks, the entire French army surrendered.

My bumper sticker states: "Cut domestic cheese".

Mark,

I heard the newspaper in Paris had the headline that said "Americans go Home" and next thing you know, all the American men had been eliminated from the French Open. How ironic is that????

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
In another thread, Camron posted: "Only when the ball is live are there restrictions on who can call timeout....only the team that has a player control (not team control)."

This got me to thinking (which, my wife tells me, can be very dangerous). On an inbound play, the ball becomes live when at the disposal of the inbounder. However, there is no team or player control at that point, since player control is defined as holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. Also however, the defending team may not legally be granted a TO during this time.

Is this consistent with the theory that, during a live ball, only the team in player control may legally be granted a TO?

Is there a written exception to this in NF rules?

OK. I was a litte incomplete (or maybe inaccurate depending on how you look at it).

Perhaps better a better statement:

Only when the ball is live are there restrictions on who can call timeout....only the team that has a player control (not just team control) or has the ball at their disposal for a throw-in or free throw.

[ref18]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

As I've mentioned before, my wife has a key chain that states "Men are like dogs - dumb but trainable"

BTW - I didn't say that stuff about the French as posted above, although it is clever. My statements about them are usually more in the vein that they're a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys.

I heard that when EuroDisney opened and they set off fireworks, the entire French army surrendered.

My bumper sticker states: "Cut domestic cheese".

lmfao