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-   -   More Pacers/Pistons call/no call (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/13867-more-pacers-pistons-call-no-call.html)

OverAndBack Thu May 27, 2004 11:22am

Since you have to jump through hoops to read the whole article, the relevant section here from Salon.com:

Quote:


The latest example of NBA officiating inconsistency -- to use a kind word, rather than, say, incompetence or insanity -- came at the end of the Pistons 85-78 win over the Pacers in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference finals Wednesday night.

Trailing by six with about 15 seconds left and hoping for a four-point play, Reggie Miller of the Pacers pump-faked Richard Hamilton into the air, then jumped into him as he launched a 3-point shot. No call. Miller complained to the refs, as is his wont.

"When Reggie Miller got Rip Hamilton up in the air and drew the contact I thought I was going to hear a whistle," said ESPN color man Doc Rivers as Miller argued fruitlessly. "What the officials are saying is that Rip came down straight and Reggie drew the contact. He [Miller] jumped into him."

That's right. But the thing is, precisely 100 percent of the time that play happens, a foul is called on the defender. Every single time. Except at the end of a playoff game, I guess. Because evidently the rules change at such a time.

The rule book is unambiguous to the point of absurdity. It should have been a foul on Miller.

Didn't see the play in question, but I thought I'd throw this out there for discussion.


Adam Thu May 27, 2004 11:43am

My understanding is that this play is generally best no-called, by rule. Unless the defender is knocked to the floor, there is no advantage gained by the shooter jumping into a player if you don't call a defensive foul.

Salon is wrong.

Dan_ref Thu May 27, 2004 01:04pm


That play was vintage Miller: get the defender in the air, jump into him, draw the whistle. I always roll my eyes when there's a whistle on these. The no call brought a smile to my face - it was a game ender & Miller was LIVID. At the final buzzer he booted the ball into the crowd.

A great no call, the only thing inconsistent about it is Miller has gotten way too many of these calls in the past. He didn't last night. In fact Miller was so shocked there was no whistle he forgot to fall on his @ss.

blindzebra Thu May 27, 2004 01:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

That play was vintage Miller: get the defender in the air, jump into him, draw the whistle. I always roll my eyes when there's a whistle on these. The no call brought a smile to my face - it was a game ender & Miller was LIVID. At the final buzzer he booted the ball into the crowd.

A great no call, the only thing inconsistent about it is Miller has gotten way too many of these calls in the past. He didn't last night. In fact Miller was so shocked there was no whistle he forgot to fall on his @ss.

Miller is my least favorite player EVER. He pushes off, grabs, holds, jumps into and kicks his legs into the defender all the time. If games were actually called by the rules, Reggie would have been out of the league a long time ago.

whistleone Thu May 27, 2004 01:18pm

I found it funny that, in a comparison between Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton on Sportscenter, Reggie commented on the similarities in their games and even mentioned the clutching and holding that they both do on defense. Guess Reggie's getting a little taste of his own medicine now...

blindzebra Thu May 27, 2004 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by whistleone
I found it funny that, in a comparison between Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton on Sportscenter, Reggie commented on the similarities in their games and even mentioned the clutching and holding that they both do on defense. Guess Reggie's getting a little taste of his own medicine now...
Actually, they were talking about the chucking and holding they do on OFFENSE. If the defender is not going to run into the pick, Miller will pull them into the screener. He will lock up and then push off to create space.

mick Thu May 27, 2004 01:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

...The no call brought a smile to my face ....

Dan,
I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.(ie, Will the official get spanked for that call?)

I have been enjoying the lunch bucket work of the Nets, Pacers, and Pistons. They are not always pretty, but they sure seem to play hard.

mick



blindzebra Thu May 27, 2004 01:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

...The no call brought a smile to my face ....

Dan,
I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.(ie, Will the official get spanked for that call?)

I have been enjoying the lunch bucket work of the Nets, Pacers, and Pistons. They are not always pretty, but they sure seem to play hard.

mick



Did they get spanked after the same no-call when Peja jumped in against Minnesota?

mick Thu May 27, 2004 01:48pm

Dunno.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Did they get spanked after the same no-call when Peja jumped in against Minnesota?
blindzebra,
I do not know that happened.
My point was that I do not trust my knowledge the NBA rules.
mick


OverAndBack Thu May 27, 2004 01:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
My understanding is that this play is generally best no-called, by rule. Unless the defender is knocked to the floor, there is no advantage gained by the shooter jumping into a player if you don't call a defensive foul.

Salon is wrong.

Would you ever call a defensive foul in that instance?

blindzebra Thu May 27, 2004 01:57pm

Re: Dunno.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Did they get spanked after the same no-call when Peja jumped in against Minnesota?
blindzebra,
I do not know that happened.
My point was that I do not trust my knowledge the NBA rules.
mick


They only let about 9 guys ref at this point anyway, so I doubt anyone of them will get axed over what is, by rule, the correct call.

Jurassic Referee Thu May 27, 2004 02:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
[/B]
I have been enjoying the lunch bucket work of the Nets, Pacers, and Pistons. They are not always pretty, but they sure seem to play hard.

[/B][/QUOTE]Lunch bucket? Is that another way to say "b-o-r-i-n-g"? Hell, last night, I even got up and took Spike for a walk during the game.

PS-Spike is my wife's pet Siamese fighting fish. Not to be confused with Vesta, the Princess Warrior- our main dog-, and Gizmo- our back-up dog. The game put both of them to sleep.

Adam Thu May 27, 2004 02:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by OverAndBack
Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
My understanding is that this play is generally best no-called, by rule. Unless the defender is knocked to the floor, there is no advantage gained by the shooter jumping into a player if you don't call a defensive foul.

Salon is wrong.

Would you ever call a defensive foul in that instance?

Maybe, depends on the play. I didn't see the play, but I've seen Miller do it enough times to have a good idea of what happened. If the defense jumps at a clean trajectory, and the shooter jumps at an other than normal angle to initiate contact (an angle that is not a normal jump shot trajectory), it's generally a no-call for body contact. I might see a defensive foul if the defender's hand finds its way to the shooter's arm or wrist.
If anything, Miller's play is a player control foul. Most likely, no-call is the best unless someone ends up on the floor because of it. Note that Miller's flop does not count.

mick Thu May 27, 2004 02:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
If anything, Miller's play is a player control foul. Most likely, no-call is the best unless someone ends up on the floor because of it. Note that Miller's flop does not count.
Snaqwells,
Your mind's eye saw that play very well, indeed.

I would love to see an offensive foul called on that play at that level, but I think I will not.
mick


mick Thu May 27, 2004 02:43pm

Boring?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
...Lunch bucket? Is that another way to say "b-o-r-i-n-g"? Hell, last night, I even got up and took Spike for a walk during the game.

PS-Spike is my wife's pet Siamese fighting fish. Not to be confused with Vesta, the Princess Warrior- our main dog-, and Gizmo- our back-up dog. The game put both of them to sleep.

JR,
Was it raining that hard?
Sounds fishy.
mick



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