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-   -   More Pacers/Pistons call/no call (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/13867-more-pacers-pistons-call-no-call.html)

SMEngmann Thu May 27, 2004 02:56pm

I just want to chime in about morons like the guy from Salon thinking that they have a clue about the rules, officiating and officiating philosophy in general. This guy, who hasn't officiated so much as a 3rd grade girls game judging by his comments, thinks he has the knowledge to blast the refs and influence the public about how bad NBA officials are. Clearly, there is no concept of advantage-disadvantage within his post. Imagine what would happen at the NBA level if all incidental contact that by rule could be called a foul were called a foul without any exercize of judgement. Ignorant attacks such as this on an NBA official reflect poorly on the entire officiating community.

Hawks Coach Thu May 27, 2004 05:34pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:

Miller is my least favorite player EVER. He pushes off, grabs, holds, jumps into and kicks his legs into the defender all the time. If games were actually called by the rules, Reggie would have been out of the league a long time ago.
Whoa Nellie! Are you posting as a ref or a fanboy?

I ain't a Pacers fan by any stretch, and Miller does all of this. But that doesn't make him that different from the rest of the league, except he has learned how to hide it and get away with it. Oh, and he is a helluva player. Probably hit more clutch shots than any active player.

Now I would agree that somehow Miller has gotten away with alot over the years. When he got no-called last night, I was glad to see it happen, especially watching the hand gestures from the official indicating that Miller jumped into the defender and not vice-versa. And I commented to my son that I really don't understand how he got away with that leg kick all those years, especially in this age where it is all reviewed post-game on video. You would have thought the no-calls would have started years ago.

blindzebra Thu May 27, 2004 05:49pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:

Miller is my least favorite player EVER. He pushes off, grabs, holds, jumps into and kicks his legs into the defender all the time. If games were actually called by the rules, Reggie would have been out of the league a long time ago.
Whoa Nellie! Are you posting as a ref or a fanboy?

I ain't a Pacers fan by any stretch, and Miller does all of this. But that doesn't make him that different from the rest of the league, except he has learned how to hide it and get away with it. Oh, and he is a helluva player. Probably hit more clutch shots than any active player.

Now I would agree that somehow Miller has gotten away with alot over the years. When he got no-called last night, I was glad to see it happen, especially watching the hand gestures from the official indicating that Miller jumped into the defender and not vice-versa. And I commented to my son that I really don't understand how he got away with that leg kick all those years, especially in this age where it is all reviewed post-game on video. You would have thought the no-calls would have started years ago.
I stopped being a fan of the NBA a long time ago, it coincided with me becoming an official, imagine that!:D

Miller just illustrates so well, what I hate about the NBA.
Kind of like when Jordan pushed off and hit the shot against Utah, right in front of Ed Rush who was about to become the top dog of the NBA officials.;)

gsf23 Thu May 27, 2004 10:25pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

I ain't a Pacers fan by any stretch, and Miller does all of this. But that doesn't make him that different from the rest of the league, except he has learned how to hide it and get away with it. Oh, and he is a helluva player. Probably hit more clutch shots than any active player.

Jordan hit nine game winning shots in his career, Reggie has hit 22.

Dan_ref Fri May 28, 2004 08:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

I ain't a Pacers fan by any stretch, and Miller does all of this. But that doesn't make him that different from the rest of the league, except he has learned how to hide it and get away with it. Oh, and he is a helluva player. Probably hit more clutch shots than any active player.

Jordan hit nine game winning shots in his career, Reggie has hit 22.

Interesting...where did you get this stat from?

Adam Fri May 28, 2004 09:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

I ain't a Pacers fan by any stretch, and Miller does all of this. But that doesn't make him that different from the rest of the league, except he has learned how to hide it and get away with it. Oh, and he is a helluva player. Probably hit more clutch shots than any active player.

Jordan hit nine game winning shots in his career, Reggie has hit 22.

Jordan has 6 rings. How many for Reggie? How many of Reggie's game winning shots came in the NBA finals? How many series winning shots did he make? How many game winning steals did Jordan make? Reggie?

BigGref Fri May 28, 2004 10:58am

Ts
 
I am going to change the subject slightly, but it still pertains to the series.

Why has Rasheed Walace, Ben Wallace, Jermaine ONeal, or Larry Brown not got hit with a T in this series? I am personally stunned by these no calls. When I am watching these games with my family they usually turn to me and ask why something was called or no called, 95% of the time I can give some type of explination (btw this is an excellent study in the offseason, helps when you have to explain to coaches), now in this series I have seen these guys be the whinniest group of players, almost as much as the Lakers. Worst of all was Rasheed Wallace, who dances around throwing fists and arms everywhere when he disagrees with a call. And I used to be a Larry Brown fan but he is catching the bug, I heard on National TV his comments to an official, something like "that is the same B.S. that almost cost us the game 2 days ago," among other tantrums.

OK, that was my beef, now I would like to know how the league can tell officials to let these guys be maniacs, I beleive that it will hurt these officials and the integrity of the games itself. Here I am assuming that Stern and Nunn had some powwow that said to the officials to let them show off a little, don't be on the T quick.

I think that now they know this is backfiring a little bit from what I saw last night with the Lakers/Wolves Game. I was relieved to see them use the Technical effectively throughout the game. So I am looking forward to a more controled game tonight, unless the league continues this which will only lead to something bad that they don't want happening, stars out of big games for fighting!

WHEW!

Jurassic Referee Fri May 28, 2004 11:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by BigGref
When I am watching these games with my family they usually turn to me and ask why something was called or no called, 95% of the time I can give some type of explination


You're way better than I am. I don't have a clue why something is a travel sometimes, but the same thing is not a travel another time. Or what constitutes a foul, even. For the life of me, I can't figure out what contact is allowed on a drive or a rebound, and what isn't. The same thing applies to the moaning & groaning, whining, dancing, trash-talking, etc that's so prevalent now in the NBA. Sometimes, it looks like it's allowed, and sometimes it's nailed right away. There's gotta be guidelines, but I've never been able to figure them out.

OverAndBack Fri May 28, 2004 11:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
Jordan hit nine game winning shots in his career, Reggie has hit 22.
I guess Reggie's a better player, then. :rolleyes:

Camron Rust Fri May 28, 2004 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

I ain't a Pacers fan by any stretch, and Miller does all of this. But that doesn't make him that different from the rest of the league, except he has learned how to hide it and get away with it. Oh, and he is a helluva player. Probably hit more clutch shots than any active player.

Jordan hit nine game winning shots in his career, Reggie has hit 22.

You don't need game winning shots when you're not trailing by 1 on the last shot. I'll take someone who puts the game out of reach for the other team over someone who has to save it at the buzzer.

Adam Fri May 28, 2004 01:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

I ain't a Pacers fan by any stretch, and Miller does all of this. But that doesn't make him that different from the rest of the league, except he has learned how to hide it and get away with it. Oh, and he is a helluva player. Probably hit more clutch shots than any active player.

Jordan hit nine game winning shots in his career, Reggie has hit 22.

You don't need game winning shots when you're not trailing by 1 on the last shot. I'll take someone who puts the game out of reach for the other team over someone who has to save it at the buzzer.

Well put, Cameron. It's a classic example of a seemingly important, but in reality meaningless, statistic.

Hawks Coach Sat May 29, 2004 10:08am

It may be somewhat meaningless, but given that a lot of NBA games come down to the wire in the 4th quarter, I would always have a place on my team for a guy that can create, take, and make the clutch shot. Reggie clearly can. He isn't better than Jordan by any stretch (hence the stat being meaningless), but he's a great player.

And I too would like to know where this stat came from and how it is calculated (does time have to be expired when ball goes thru the net, is it the last shot made in a 1-2 point wing, etc.). And who calculated this anyway. I am more than a bit dubious of stats that are tossed out without reference or criteria.

TravelinMan Sat May 29, 2004 07:28pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gsf23
[B]
Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

Jordan hit nine game winning shots in his career, Reggie has hit 22.

This does not surprise me. Miller si the VERY BEST off a pick in the NBA. He SPECILAIZES in it. Of course, that is all he is good at. Jordan was good at EVERYTHING.

Indy_Ref Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
That play was vintage Miller: get the defender in the air, jump into him, draw the whistle...
When an A1 gets B1 faked into the air...and that defender is NOT vertical (which, in this case, Hamilton was not as replays clearly show BOTH Hamilton's arms and body were out-stretched toward Miller and advancing toward Miller.)...then B1 is always at the mercy of the offensive player. As long as A1 doesn't lead with a malicious elbow, shoulder, or kick, he has every right to attempt a shot, draw contact, and get the call.

Quote:

... - it was a game-ender & Miller was LIVID. At the final buzzer he booted the ball into the crowd.
Being that Reggie has been in the league for about 18 years, and should have enough respect by now to warrant that call, I don't blame him.

Quote:

A great no-call, the only thing inconsistent about it is Miller has gotten way too many of these calls in the past. He didn't last night. In fact Miller was so shocked there was no whistle he forgot to fall on his @ss.
Dan, what an idiotic thing to say. Admittedly, Reggie has gotten away with WAY TOO MUCH crap in the past, but not on this play! He "forgot to fall on his a$$" because he wasn't knocked to the ground on this particular play. He simply drew some contact from an illegal defender by slightly changing his bodily trajectory on the shot attempt. I felt it was a pretty obvious call. Jordan got these calls every time...Shaq & Kobe get these calls every time...stars get these calls almost every time. And, Reggie is certainly a star even if he is in the twilight of his career. Once a player gains that certain level of "respect", it should not be lost...no matter what his past transgressions have been.

Dan_ref Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:11am

Quote:

Originally posted by Indy_Ref
Dan, what an idiotic thing to say.
Gee thanks, Indy. If I took the time to think about it I might actually feel slighted in some way. Mmmmmm...nah, maybe not.
Quote:



He "forgot to fall on his a$$" because he wasn't knocked to the ground on this particular play. He simply drew some contact from an illegal defender by slightly changing his bodily trajectory on the shot attempt.
I see...and how, exactly, is this different from the 1000's of times he's flopped with no contact on a 3 point attempt in the past? "No, not Reggie Miller...Reggie never flops!" you're saying to yourself right now.

Yes Indy, Reggie Miller flops.

I know, I know, it's tough seeing your team getting booted by the formerly lowly Pistons. You'll probably get over it, eventually. In the meantime enjoy your summer, there's always next year...

Maybe Bird will sign Rasheed? And once again there can be joy in Mudville...err...Indy.


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