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Mon May 24, 2004, 01:25pm
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Trail is on ball just below the 28' line, player attempts a skip pass that is tipped and stolen near the division line. Trail was positioned perfectly and now has players behind him/her going the other way. I've also been taught that you should always get an outside in look in 3-person, but there are times, like when you are rotating from C to T where you will be working inside out for a moment. 
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Mon May 24, 2004, 02:29pm
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Well, shame on the majority of NCAA and NBA officials then. When the ball goes the other way in a hurry on a steal,etc., it's not uncommon at all for an O & D player to get in front of a trail that has to stop and reverse directions in a hurry. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, shame on them!
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Mon May 24, 2004, 03:01pm
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Lets stick to high school, sence thats what the majority of us here ref.
If a D can make it down court on a fast break to produce a foul, then I should be down court to see it happen, and if not sham on me !
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Mon May 24, 2004, 03:08pm
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We are not talking about getting beat back during normal plays, we are talking about having transition starting BEHIND you, as trail. If you are doing your job right as trail, by working the backside and stepping down on the shot, you WILL get beat back, and it is unwise to try to outrun the play and get NO LOOK, as opposed to getting a good look by trailing the play.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 03:13pm
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:18pm
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:22pm
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You can have a quick steal in transition and trails momentum is going forward, but the ball is already going the other way, and trail is BEHIND the play. You can have a shot with trail stepping down to FTL extended area, a long rebound a tap back and you have the ball going the other way, and trail is BEHIND the play. There will be times in every game where trail will get behind the play without it being trail's fault. The smart official recognizes that they are beat and positions themselves to get a good look at the play. That look does not happen by trying to outrun the players.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:22pm
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And I'll let you know about it the first dead ball...
__________________
9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:30pm
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[/B][/QUOTE]
In Arizona our former commissioner was so pro NBA, that it got crazy. We had they grey shirts, we were using non-fed mechanics, funny how we never got 3-person passed. Anyway, he stressed new lead getting to the endline before the ball crossed the division line. That is the NBA influence and you found so many officals CHEATING back on the shot, just so they would not get beat back, that the games suffered. I find in those rare ocassions where I'm beat, that working it wide gives me a better look, then moving toward the center of the court. I can see the whole play, adjust for the look through, and get to the endline easier from the sideline versus the closest lane line. [/B][/QUOTE] My two cents. I have worked the NBA system and NF. They are not mutally exclusive. My goal is always get the the baseline as a new lead before the ball gets to mid court. It requires some hustle but You need to be there. How can a person ref the lead when the ball is in front court and you are still moving to baseline. I have seen officials 4' off the baseline when ball is in mid court. I know that there are a lot of officials that espouse that a trail should always step down to FTL extended. I am one who believes this is not always the best policy. If the lead is working strong-side as shown/mentioned/illustrated by NF then Trail should not be so low, especially if lead comes over and both officails are on the same side of the floor. Trail has the perimeter and weakside rebounds which now are on the other side of the floor. The only way to see that is be higher. Trail should be between top of key and 28' mark. If the ball is out high, we should be working outside in. If there is a steal on the pass most of the time you should be atleast even with it. Take off with the play and get to the baseline. You may not get there but you'll be close. I personally dont like the button-hook, stay out near the FT Line stuff to look between. If your down there with them, you see the same thing the coaches see, you hear stuff, you can see ball go off legs etc... The farther behind the play you are the more likely you'll get yelled at. Id rather be one foot behind and miss 15 lay-up fouls, than I would to be in between them and behind by 10 or 15 and miss one.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:33pm
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I guarantee that if you watch for it tonight in the NBA game, you will see the trail caught under those exact circumstances. Happens at all levels.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:44pm
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Sure, getting downcourt first is great, but this more often than not means turning your back to the play & hauling @ss down court. Where I come from, if you turn your back to the play for more than a few steps, even on a tip/steal/fast break then you are gonna get yelled at big time. And I do not mean by some coach. Getting beat at the NF/NCAA level is fine in 2 man, even 3 man, as long as you are *referee-ing* from T - in fact it's even encouraged. If you're hanging back at mid court & still get beat...well then you might think about dropping down a level...but if you're working and get beat then it's good.
__________________
9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:44pm
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Anyway, he stressed new lead getting to the endline before the ball crossed the division line. That is the NBA influence and you found so many officals CHEATING back on the shot, just so they would not get beat back, that the games suffered. I find in those rare ocassions where I'm beat, that working it wide gives me a better look, then moving toward the center of the court. I can see the whole play, adjust for the look through, and get to the endline easier from the sideline versus the closest lane line. [/B][/QUOTE] My two cents. I have worked the NBA system and NF. They are not mutally exclusive. My goal is always get the the baseline as a new lead before the ball gets to mid court. It requires some hustle but You need to be there. How can a person ref the lead when the ball is in front court and you are still moving to baseline. I have seen officials 4' off the baseline when ball is in mid court. I know that there are a lot of officials that espouse that a trail should always step down to FTL extended. I am one who believes this is not always the best policy. If the lead is working strong-side as shown/mentioned/illustrated by NF then Trail should not be so low, especially if lead comes over and both officails are on the same side of the floor. Trail has the perimeter and weakside rebounds which now are on the other side of the floor. The only way to see that is be higher. Trail should be between top of key and 28' mark. If the ball is out high, we should be working outside in. If there is a steal on the pass most of the time you should be atleast even with it. Take off with the play and get to the baseline. You may not get there but you'll be close. I personally dont like the button-hook, stay out near the FT Line stuff to look between. If your down there with them, you see the same thing the coaches see, you hear stuff, you can see ball go off legs etc... The farther behind the play you are the more likely you'll get yelled at. Id rather be one foot behind and miss 15 lay-up fouls, than I would to be in between them and behind by 10 or 15 and miss one. [/B][/QUOTE] I agree that there are times that trail should not step down, that was not the point. The point is we should not be so concerned about getting beat on a play that has not happened yet, that we don't referee the play that IS happening. I don't think anyone is saying that the best look is not on the endline with the play coming to you, but that trying to get to that look when you can't get there first is the worst look you can get. If you stay wide get the center's look and close on a call, you are in the same spot as you'd be if you were on the endline, made a call and stepped on the court. The appearence is the same AFTER the call. I rather get a good look, see the play, get the call right and sell it, then beat them there but miss the call in the effort.
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:48pm
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Mon May 24, 2004, 04:56pm
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As I said earlier the former commissioner in Arizona embraced this philosophy and evaluated officials based on it. It really hurt the game and lead to bad habits.
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