Give it to um ???

[TKATNL]

All ~
Last night I officiated a 8th grade classic girls game. It was the end of the third quarter and the red team was leading the green team by about 20. Green team has the ball under their own hoop and take's a shot at the buzzer. I was lead offical at this point. To my best judgement the shot was not released before the horn, (although I admit it was very close) I waived off the shot, the ball scored. The crowd gave me a HARD time for not "Giving" it to them. No protest from either coach. I met with my partner who is a 20 veteran and he said "you could of gave that to them the coach of the Red team probably wound not have cared". So all that said and remembering I'm still in my first year. Once I finish games I'm real hard on myself and go over the game in my head recounting certain senario's. I enjoy officaiting with seasoned officails because I'm learning alot from them and appreciate it. So I'm still officating with my instinct and with the ruling knowledge that I have thus far, and not with emotion. What would you do ? Do you give them the shot because the score margin is so large , give lee-way. I mean, I was confused / shocked when my partner said that to me, and he was serious.

[BktBallRef]

No, I would not give them the basket. You may ignore a few fouls or minor violations in a blowout. But don't count baskets that shouldn't count.

More importantly, why are you counting or cancelling the basket from lead?

[Dan_ref]

Tim, I have the same question as Tony. As lead with ball
in the front court you have no business deciding if the last second basket is good or not. (I'm kinda surprised
your 20 yr vet partner didn't say something.) I'm not
picking on you, but this is something you should be
aware of.

[Bradley Batt]

If it was close enough to where it could go either way, you should give it to them... IMHO...

[Richard Ogg]

Last night we had a clock only on one end. In all three games we decided that the official facing the clock would call the last shot -- lead or trail.

As for the close shot, you call it as it is if obvious. If it was real close, I'd let the score influence me at the end of the game with a wide margin. The winning team will not care, and it gives the others something to feel good about.

I had a similar experience my first year. One team was still in single digits, the other a scoring machine. Late in the game the team down had a freethrow. The shooter violated the line just a little. I blew the shot dead, and it was the only freethrow the team made the whole game. A 20+ year vet in the stands talked to me later and said that good game management ignores the violation and lets them have the basket. Recognize that we weren't talking about running down the lane, but landing with a foot on the line or maybe over an inch or so, and no attempt to run into the lane. It was a valuable lesson for me. (The player was semi-crushed.)

[rpwall]

I still remember a situation in my first year (in a Sophomore game) when I called a foul on a player who had just entered the game (for the first time) with about 1:30 left in the 4th. On a free throw rebound he banged the arm of his opponent enough to make the ball go OOB. Instead of just making the OOB call, I call the foul. The game wasn't close, so my "big" foul call was of no importance, other than that kid probably got his butt chewed for committing a foul, or maybe his butt back stayed on the bench next time. I never saw that kid advance to JV or Varsity in the ensuing years ... I am sure it wasn't because of my bird-brained call ... but it has served as a reminder over time to be sensitive to the kids when the score is not an issue. Maybe I am just a softie!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Richard Ogg
Last night we had a clock only on one end. In all three games we decided that the official facing the clock would call the last shot -- lead or trail.

Why? You don't look at the clock to make the call, you listen for the horn.

I agree that whoever is facing the clock can be responsible for making sure it starts correctly.

And, I agree with the others on game management, and giving the really close calls to the team that's way down.

[ilya]

>You don't look at the clock to make the call, you listen
for the horn.

at my games (i'm not a ref, i'm a player ) we usually have someone out of the crowd doing the score (don't ask me why).
the horn sometimes isn't even working, so it could be hard to listen to it

[Buck Wu]

I agree that the trail should be the one to call the last second shot. The horn has to work because it is the signal that the quarter is over (Rule 5-6), except if there is a foul or a ball in flight. I agree that you should try to give some lee way to a team that is really getting killed, but the basket was not good---end of story. It is about game management and each situation is different. I am sure that we are not going to crush a kid's self-esteem if we waive a basket that was not good to being with. The kids and us make mistakes in games and what we both need to do is learn from those so that we can be better players and offcials.

[glind]

Maybe I am not going about this the right way but I try not to let a score ever influance the way I call a game. If you would not have counted the hoop if the game were tied than don't count it if it is a blow out.

I also agree that you should not have had to make that call from the lead position anyway. And with the situation with only one clock, even if there are two clocks and I am the trail I am just going to listen to make that call because there is just to much else to watch at that point: Did he travel first, did he get fouled, o and what about the girl in the third row,(Just Kidda around) but seriously there is alot to watch and if you are looking at the clock you might miss something.

Just keeping woking hard and call the game regardless of score.

[Todd VandenAkker]

Originally posted by glind
Maybe I am not going about this the right way but I try not to let a score ever influance the way I call a game.

Game management. If you ignore the score as you officiate, you will inevitably have games where you are "out of touch" with how the game should be called. The little anecdotes a couple guys gave are great examples of how "ignoring" certain violations can benefit the game and let a kid feel better about him-/herself. Certainly at the junior high level or lower it is important to have a feel for the game and what should be called and what not called. How many times have we had blowout games where the losing team just don't have the skills and can't do anything right. If we call every travel, every step over the free throw line, every bump, etc., the game becomes an unending series of whistles that is no fun for anyone. Experience is the best teacher, and over time an official will get a feel for what can be overlooked and what SHOULD be called.

Even at the high school and college levels, though, game awareness is very important and CAN and SHOULD have some influence on how you call the game. I've heard prominent Div. I officials talk about this, including "passing" on certain calls in a blowout game or giving borderline calls to the team getting hammered. It's not that you have to be constantly debating what to call and what to let go, but if there are minor things that can easily go a certain way that will aid game management, then do it. I can almost guarantee that most successful high school and college officials are keeping game management in mind as they work.

Oh, BTW: Give the kid the last second bucket if it's at all close, and a reason to smile.

[Edited by Todd VandenAkker on Jan 8th, 2001 at 10:09 AM]