This has always been a tough call for me.

F (front) is in front of B (back).
F and B are in the paint.
A shot goes up and rebounds toward F and B.
B jumps first, and high, and grabs the ball, while legally reaching over F's back, head and shoulders.
F jumps late, but very vertically, and reaches the ball after B, whose outstretched hands, over F, still have the ball.
There is contact on B's arms as F reaches for the ball.
The contact causes the ball to be released, indicating that there was sufficient contact.

The safe call is a no call.
What is the proper call?

mick

If F and B are on the same team, then a no call is the proper call. ;)

If F and B are on the same team and both names are not in the score book, I have ONE technical foul! :D

If F and B are on different teams, then I have a foul on F. :(

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 3rd, 2001 at 10:12 PM]

I have a foul on B, if any foul at all.

4-44-4 states that the defender shall not be penalized for having "arms extended within his/her vertical plane."

Once B reaches out, he violates F's 'airspace,' and a foul is his responsibility.

I've got a foul on F. If B legally rebounded the ball, then F's actions (contact) caused the ball to come loose, easy call. Common foul on F.

The only other option is a no call. B did nothing to warrant a foul.

Right -- but F isn't being penalized for having the arms extended, F is being penalized for extendinghis arms.

F initiated the contact. If it's a foul, it's a foul on F.

Hang with your instinct, Mick!
 

I'll most likely have a "no call" if the contact can pass as incidental. If it can't, I'll call the foul on F. How can you penalize B for LEGALLY getting to the rebound first? In my opinion, you can't and shouldn't!

Now, coach F & the F fans are going to think you are whacked out, BUT, in my opinion, you've made the correct call.

B is violating F's vertical space, just because F was not there to start with doesn't mean that he still isn't entitled to it. If I make the call it is on B.


Now if you called a foul on F, it is because he jumped <i> backwards </i> right? Violating B's space.

Interesting, Brian. You're going to call a foul on B when B grabs the ball out of the air, doesn't make ANY contact with F; AND THEN, F jumps up, initiates contact with B, and knocks the ball out of B's hands by making this contact on B's arms????

I just can't see it. I'm sticking to my call! Of course, it's only my opinion, too.

This might be one of those things that you just need to see. Looking at it on paper, I feel that if B was not in F's space there would be no contact. So should I penalize F for exercising his right to his veritical space? On paper I say no, but seeing it full speed in real life, I might have a different opinion.

[Edited by Brian Watson on Jan 4th, 2001 at 09:04 AM]

I think that any time you jump and reach over someone to get the ball, you risk being responsible for any contact that occurs. If it is insufficient to call a foul, or if no contact ends up occurring, B is in the clear. But if contact occurs, I think that B is responsible. I don't be;lieve that F initiated the contact merely because F jumped after B. I have a hard time with the concept that B obtains the right to space directly above F by jumping first. I can only see a no call or a foul on B.

Other than maybe "HEY REF, 3 Seconds, can't you count?" the "Hey, Over the back" is my most commonly heard complaint. As a coach, are you willing to accept a no call on this one? No call is my first inclination.

Tony,
You are a Turkey!
mick

Foul on B (who casued the contact by violating F's space).

I can accept no call. If B can jump over A and either avoid contact or have contact that does not warrant a foul, that's just good aggressive bball. But if you think you have a foul, I feel that it has to be on B. It seems bizarre to call a foul on F for going straight up for a rebound and running into someone who tried to jump over them. Sorry B, you almost made a great play.

BTW, you won't hear me call for an over the back after all of the discussion on this board. I may ask nicely for a push, though;)

If you no call it, you're effectively saying that B is at fault but you're passing on it. Otherwise, you have to call the foul on F since the contact caused B to lose the ball.

Gobble, gobble! :)