shooter jumping into airborne defense

[zanzibar]

B1 is airborne trying to contest A1's 3pt. shot. Once B1 is airborne can A1 jump into B1 or does A1 have to go straight up?

I need to add that in the judgement of the official there would not have been any contact if A1 had not jumped in.

Just consolidating the thread - Brad

[Edited by Brad on Apr 30th, 2004 at 05:49 PM]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by zanzibar
B1 is airborne trying to contest A1's 3pt. shot. Once B1 is airborne can A1 jump into B1 or does A1 have to go straight up?

No one can ever jump into anyone.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by rainmaker

No one can ever jump into anyone.

Okay, now that I get the first response trophy, I can give a more female-side (read "chatty") answer. If B1 has established legal guarding position and is defending straight up, then A1 can't jump into him. If B1 is jumping or stepping forward or sideways toward the shooter, then he doesn't have legal guarding position, and it becomes a little murkier. A1 still can't use a lot of forward motion into B1, but B1 has the greater responsibility.

A1 still can't go out of his path or normal stride to make contact even if B1 doesn't have legal guarding position.

The other varilable to keep in mind is whether B1 left the floor before or after A1 left the floor for the shot. B1 can't take away A1's landing space, once A1 is in the air. But if B1 is defending by jumping straight up, and A1 jumps into the defender, that's PC, if it's anything.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

No one can ever jump into anyone.

Ever?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Ever?

Well, I don't know, but I had to type really, really fast to get to the front of the line, and I didn't have time for the details. See that next post.

Although, now that I think about it, when could one player "jump into" another player? I suppose if the defender is taking away the shooting A1's landing space after A1 leaves the floor, that's going to look like A1 is "jumping into" B1, but it would be a block, not a PC. I can't think of any others.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Well, I don't know, but I had to type really, really fast to get to the front of the line, and I didn't have time for the details. See that next post.

Although, now that I think about it, when could one player "jump into" another player?

At least when both are engaged in normal game actions...as in one or both players jumping to catch a pass when neither starts in an advantagous position.

Don't you agree?

[Camron Rust]

Consider this not too unlikely case:

Shot in the air. A1 is coming from the top of the key while B4 is coming in from the side. B4 anticipates the rebound and jumps for the while running full speed. However, the rebound goes straight to A1, who is running down the lane. B4 lands on A1 as A1 is now jumping to shoot. B4 is an airborn player who's landing spot was vacant when he jumped. Is this a foul on A1? Or is it a foul on B4? Or is it nothing?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Consider this not too unlikely case:

Shot in the air. A1 is coming from the top of the key while B4 is coming in from the side. B4 anticipates the rebound and jumps for the while running full speed. However, the rebound goes straight to A1, who is running down the lane. B4 lands on A1 as A1 is now jumping to shoot. B4 is an airborn player who's landing spot was vacant when he jumped. Is this a foul on A1? Or is it a foul on B4? Or is it nothing?

In this particular case, doesn't it depend on whether A1 has player control before B4 lands on him? If A1 gets the ball, then isn't it just, "Sorry B4, I know it was not planned, but I've gotta call it anyway?"

Dan -- I knew if I asked, someone would come up with something else. That's why I asked! So we've got 1) the defender taking the shooter's landing spot, and we've got 2) certain types of incidental contact, and .... any others?

I hope someone will help continue this thread, since I won't be checking in again for a while. I'm spending the weekend being a college mom, and feeling very proud of my amazing son. Dan, I know you have similar pride, although perhaps for different kinds of behavior!

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rainmaker

In this particular case, doesn't it depend on whether A1 has player control before B4 lands on him? If A1 gets the ball, then isn't it just, "Sorry B4, I know it was not planned, but I've gotta call it anyway?"

Or is it a foul on A1 for not allowing time and distance for B4 to avoid contact (since B4 was in the air and had jumped in a direction that was unoccupied at the time of the jump).

If A1 had the ball before B4 jumped, we'd likely just consider B4 to be guarding A1 and to not have legal position....a block. But, with B4 jumping for a loose ball (at the time of the jump), there is no guarding. Doesn't B4 have the right to land when the spot was unoccupied at the time of the jump?

Perhaps even incidental?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
[/B]

Doesn't B4 have the right to land when the spot was unoccupied at the time of the jump?

[/B][/QUOTE]Of course. B4 is always entitled to his "cone of horizontality"!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Doesn't B4 have the right to land when the spot was unoccupied at the time of the jump?

[/B]

Of course. B4 is always entitled to his "cone of horizontality"! [/B][/QUOTE]

Don't tell me we're gonna discuss THAT again!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker


I hope someone will help continue this thread, since I won't be checking in again for a while. I'm spending the weekend being a college mom, and feeling very proud of my amazing son. Dan, I know you have similar pride, although perhaps for different kinds of behavior!

Sons.

I'm proud of my sons.

Enjoy your weekend!

[SamIAm]

I don't think being airborne gives you any special priviliges unless you have jumped straight up, verticality.
Even then you can't reach out of the vertical space freely.
It depends more on what you are doing. If you are jumping horizontally you have responsibility to avoid contact.
Two players, A1 and B1 jump horizontally with their pathes being perpindicular, and player A1 has the ball, B1 is responsible for avoiding the contact. The NCAA rule book
mentions responsibility for contact being on the person in a unfavorable position. Yet the landing space for A1 and B1 may be unoccupied. (Neither A1 nor B1 get to the landing space due to the contact).

[eroe39]

Zanzibar, back to your original play. From what I have been taught, if B1 jumps in a manner that is not vertical and A1 now jumps forward into him to draw the contact it is a defensive foul for B1 being illegal and A1 being smart. Now if A1 jumps way to the side in a very unnatural manner I would have an offensive foul or no call. When defenders are contesting perimeter jump shots 99% of the time they jump forward towards the ball, i.e. not vertical, and therefore, are illegal. This is what I have seen by watching tape. Now when big men are protecting the basket on a drive then there is a good chance they could be jumping vertically and therefore be legal.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by eroe39
Zanzibar, back to your original play. From what I have been taught, if B1 jumps in a manner that is not vertical and A1 now jumps forward into him to draw the contact it is a defensive foul for B1 being illegal and A1 being smart. Now if A1 jumps way to the side in a very unnatural manner I would have an offensive foul or no call. When defenders are contesting perimeter jump shots 99% of the time they jump forward towards the ball, i.e. not vertical, and therefore, are illegal. This is what I have seen by watching tape. Now when big men are protecting the basket on a drive then there is a good chance they could be jumping vertically and therefore be legal.

Isn't he just too cool?!?! Hey, Eli, welcome back!