04-05 rules cjages up nfhs

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by davidw


Rocky, would be interested in some of the details on this. I serve on our on the Exec. board for our assoc. and would be very curious as to any details you may be able to get on what the different factions were able to agree on--esp. the $$ issue.

The WIAA is more receptive because they have put in motion the changes to use 3 man at State. And supposedly, to qualify to work State, officials assigned must have been through a 3 man, certified camp that the WIAA/WOA will be sponsoring throughout the off-season. Also, they are looking at reducing the # of officials at each venue from the current 16 back to the 12 they had in years past.

Could I ask you to email me the specifics if you are able to out what they are? Thanks, David
[/B]

Sure...I will try to find out all the gory details...I know it involves a V/JV combo of some kind...and our local group is sponsoring and running one of the WOA camps for three-person mechanics in June...

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by davidw
....a stronger 'more in control' certitude than the 'mamby-bampy' curtsey signal of the open hand on hips we have to use now. ..

That's not as namby-pamby as when the ref gets confused and signals both the block and the charge one with each arm. Now THAT's funny!!!!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rainmaker
That's not as namby-pamby as when the ref gets confused and signals both the block and the charge one with each arm. Now THAT's funny!!!!

That's quite a mental image. A guy in stripes, with one hand behind his head and the other hand, palm down, on his hip. Not that there's anything wrong with that. . .

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

That's quite a mental image. A guy in stripes, with one hand behind his head and the other hand, palm down, on his hip. Not that there's anything wrong with that. . .

Just when you thought it was safe to attend a wedding reception . . . .







Thanks, Chuck.

Thanks.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

That's quite a mental image. A guy in stripes, with one hand behind his head and the other hand, palm down, on his hip. Not that there's anything wrong with that. . .

Actually happened at camp last summer. Been a hard image to shake!

[davidw]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Actually happened at camp last summer. Been a hard image to shake!

Juulie, did he try and 'sell' the call too? Was there some kind of 'shake' thrown in.

Finally, Were you able to stifle the smile and restrain the laughter? If so you need to get your Screen Actors Guild Card.

This gives me an idea for our 'end-of-season' banquet I'm responsible for next year.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I have no "inherient" problem with going table side. But I think that MOST HS officials are not capable enough of getting coaches off of them when they have to explain calls

Are you serious Rut? So you think MOST HS officials are incapable of handling Coaches in this situation.
I have officiated HS ball for over 15 years...also some small college ball years ago...so I think I might be qualified in telling you, you are full of it (or yourself).
I would be more apt to agree with Dan when he stated that SOME HS officials might have a problem with this.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by RookieDude
Are you serious Rut? So you think MOST HS officials are incapable of handling Coaches in this situation.
I have officiated HS ball for over 15 years...also some small college ball years ago...so I think I might be qualified in telling you, you are full of it (or yourself).
I would be more apt to agree with Dan when he stated that SOME HS officials might have a problem with this.

Yes. I said MOST. I mean MOST. And most is not the 20 year vet.

Well I have been working almost 10 years and working varsity ball for 8 years, I think I am rather qualified to comment on this as well. I do not think that most HS officials can handle a coach without giving a T. And one of the reasons this is, mainly because coaches at the HS level just rant and rave over just about everything. And part of this is because most officials at the HS level do not have the respect of most HS coaches. So I believe that the Ts will go up as a result. You do not have to agree, just my opinion. This mechanic is OK for the college level because the coaches are more professional and have more of a relationship with the officials. They are not seeing different officials every single game.

I have had assignors tell me and others in my area, that coaches try to get rid of the assignors of their conference all the time. And usually this happens because they are upset of who works their games. They do not trust the judgment of the so called experts, what makes you think they think of the guy that is working their game?

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Actually happened at camp last summer. Been a hard image to shake!

Camp nothin'! A guy did it in a STATE FINAL out here 2 seasons ago. He shouted block too. We dubbed it the "I'm a little teapot" signal.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Camp nothin'! A guy did it in a STATE FINAL out here 2 seasons ago. He shouted block too. We dubbed it the "I'm a little teapot" signal.

Which game was it? I don't remember that and I know it wasn't me! I'm sure someone brought this up at one of our postgame "meetings."

[Edited by tomegun on May 5th, 2004 at 08:59 AM]

[tomegun]

Originally posted by JRutledge
[BYes. I said MOST. I mean MOST. And most is not the 20 year vet.
[/B]

I agree with this statement. IMO it is true but high school coaches probably get more Ts than college coaches. This relationship is different on the two levels. The high school coach doesn't know when/how to ask a question and/or argue. The high school coach also doesn't know how to let something go. At the same time some high school refs don't know how to talk, laugh, answer, reach a stopping point and administer a T. Some base their security on whether a coach says "good job" or not. Some assume everything will go OK. We have to plan for many situations taking the climate of the game into account and many high school officials do not do this. I will go one step further than JRut. I think most of the increase in Ts will come from officials who have never officiated a college game. I say this because they have always been across court and this will be totally new.
An example: We were having a pre-game before the state final. My two partners had not seen one of the coaches because he was from my area. So I tell them that this coach is a nice guy but he can go too far and earn a T. One of my partners says "oh, he will be OK." So, I'm like OK whatever. So we are in the first quarter and a call was made right him front of him and I'm the C across court. He has a tantrum and I'm just watching. All I needed was some popcorn. Fans in the stands going nuts, what's going to happen? Technical foul (by the official who didn't make the comment in the locker room). I thought he would be OK? He calmed down and went on to win state by two points. I think Nevadaref was on the table (blowing the horn all the time ) This situation wasn't the ugliest but it could have been handled a little smoother if he had accepted my comments in the pre-game and been ready for anything. Nevada, was my story pretty accurate?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Camp nothin'! A guy did it in a STATE FINAL out here 2 seasons ago. He shouted block too. We dubbed it the "I'm a little teapot" signal.

"I'm a little teapot?!?!" Even I, the Quaker nursery school teacher, didn't think of THAT one! "Tinkerbell" was the first word that popped into my head, and that was the nicest among the several that were verbalized!

And no, david, I don't get the Screen Actors' Guild award. Neither do any of the about 10 or so other refs who were standing around guffawing. The ref who did it will NEVER live it down.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by RookieDude

Are you serious Rut? So you think MOST HS officials are incapable of handling Coaches in this situation....
I would be more apt to agree with Dan when he stated that SOME HS officials might have a problem with this.

Hey, Rook and Rut, here's an interesting fact. Almost no one agrees with anyone else about the meanings of the general quantity words. I saw a study where people were asked to rank about twenty quantity words -- like few, some, many, several, etc -- from biggest to smallest. and out of about 250 people, no two rankings were exactly the same. NONE. And none of the words was in the same position on every single response. So your "some" and "most" might be a lot closer together than you think.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Hey, Rook and Rut, here's an interesting fact. Almost no one agrees with anyone else about the meanings of the general quantity words. I saw a study where people were asked to rank about twenty quantity words -- like few, some, many, several, etc -- from biggest to smallest. and out of about 250 people, no two rankings were exactly the same. NONE. And none of the words was in the same position on every single response. So your "some" and "most" might be a lot closer together than you think.

When I say most, I mean more that 50%. If you take my state as an example. The officials that work the post season are a small percentage of all the officials in the entire state. Out of those officials, there will be several that will not know how to calm down a coach or handle their rant to where it does not result in a T. So as a result, the T totals will go up. And just like said before, a lot of this has to deal with what the coach does as well. It is not all in the lap of the official. But if the official handles it right, he or she can easily squash the situation.

Peace

[davidw]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Hey, Rook and Rut, here's an interesting fact. Almost no one agrees with anyone else about the meanings of the general quantity words. I saw a study where people were asked to rank about twenty quantity words -- like few, some, many, several, etc -- from biggest to smallest. and out of about 250 people, no two rankings were exactly the same. NONE. And none of the words was in the same position on every single response. So your "some" and "most" might be a lot closer together than you think. [/B]

Juulie, very interesting bit of info, one I will file away and try to remind myself when I sometimes find myself a little overboard in many of my conversations about how little the other participant knows about the several topics we are attempting to discuss in great depth.

Seriously, I believe keeping in mind a study like this can facilitate better communication. I hope to keep it in mind.